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Thread: Vote Billy !!!

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    Member powersackers's Avatar
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    Just voted. Will Myers of KC is up by 175 votes or so.
    Attended 1976 World Series in my Mother's Womb. Attended 1990 World Series Game 2 as a 13 year old. Want to take my son to a a World Series Game in Cincinnati in my lifetime.

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    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Vote Billy !!!

    Hamilton probably shouldn't be close to some of those guys. Hamilton is having a good season with a ton of steals. Those guys are all having incredible seasons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Hamilton probably shouldn't be close to some of those guys. Hamilton is having a good season with a ton of steals. Those guys are all having incredible seasons.
    They aren't setting history old records! Players have outstanding seasons every year - all those guys included but they won't be talked about years from now. Billy's season will be. Let's reward it, plus he's one of our own!
    Attended 1976 World Series in my Mother's Womb. Attended 1990 World Series Game 2 as a 13 year old. Want to take my son to a a World Series Game in Cincinnati in my lifetime.

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    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Vote Billy !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by powersackers View Post
    They aren't setting history old records! Players have outstanding seasons every year - all those guys included but they won't be talked about years from now. Billy's season will be. Let's reward it, plus he's one of our own!
    Doesn't matter, the award should be for the best player. The other guys on that list are having incredible all around years. Hamilton is having a good year with an incredible number of steals.

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    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Vote Billy !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Doesn't matter, the award should be for the best player. The other guys on that list are having incredible all around years. Hamilton is having a good year with an incredible number of steals.
    Ordinarily, I would agree with you in principle, but when you're about to break a 30-year old single-season record such as this, you probably deserve extra special consideration.

    I'd vote Wil Myers under normal circumstances, but these aren't normal circumstances and Hamilton is about to break a pretty incredible record.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Vote Billy !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    Ordinarily, I would agree with you in principle, but when you're about to break a 30-year old single-season record such as this, you probably deserve extra special consideration.

    I'd vote Wil Myers under normal circumstances, but these aren't normal circumstances and Hamilton is about to break a pretty incredible record.
    So if in a few years Hamilton hits .280/.340/.390 and breaks the stolen base record in the Majors you would vote for him as an MVP over a guy who hits .320/.381/.571 as a center fielder (Oscar Taveras this year for example)? I just can't buy into that being more valuable than what a guy like Taveras is doing.

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    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Vote Billy !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    So if in a few years Hamilton hits .280/.340/.390 and breaks the stolen base record in the Majors you would vote for him as an MVP over a guy who hits .320/.381/.571 as a center fielder (Oscar Taveras this year for example)? I just can't buy into that being more valuable than what a guy like Taveras is doing.
    There are a ton of hypotheticals in that question, but I'd point out that this is a different situation because the players Hamilton is being pinned against are either in another league or on another level altogether. So it's not as easy a direct comparison as an MVP award in the Majors where they're in the league and on the same level, competing against one another.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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    Re: Vote Billy !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    So if in a few years Hamilton hits .280/.340/.390 and breaks the stolen base record in the Majors you would vote for him as an MVP over a guy who hits .320/.381/.571 as a center fielder (Oscar Taveras this year for example)? I just can't buy into that being more valuable than what a guy like Taveras is doing.
    Reminds me of the 1962 NL MVP vote: http://www.baseball-reference.com/aw...62.shtml#NLmvp

    Mays should've won it, but Wills got it because of his 104 stolen bases.

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    Re: Vote Billy !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    So if in a few years Hamilton hits .280/.340/.390 and breaks the stolen base record in the Majors you would vote for him as an MVP over a guy who hits .320/.381/.571 as a center fielder (Oscar Taveras this year for example)? I just can't buy into that being more valuable than what a guy like Taveras is doing.
    What if you had to choose between these slash lines?

    .292/.349/.731

    vs.

    .317/.378/.594

    That is what 143 stolen bases can do to a slash line if you figure in the fact 143 extra bases are added to a guys slugging percentage and caught stealing is taken from average/OBP (I did equal number walks and singles). Now, it won't be quite to that number since there are probably a couple doubles in there and a caught stealing at third. That would erase a double instead of a single or a walk like I did. Yet the numbers would still be rather similar. Maybe down to .292/.353/.700 at worst.

    edit: BTW, your Hamilton numbers were short changing him to start with. Were those his AA only numbers at that point? He just went 5 for 7 in his last 2 ballgames. You can't just use his AA numbers anyway. Too small of a sample size.
    Last edited by scott91575; 08-20-2012 at 07:11 AM.

  11. #11
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Vote Billy !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    So if in a few years Hamilton hits .280/.340/.390 and breaks the stolen base record in the Majors you would vote for him as an MVP over a guy who hits .320/.381/.571 as a center fielder (Oscar Taveras this year for example)? I just can't buy into that being more valuable than what a guy like Taveras is doing.
    If you are going to use Tavaras' AA numbers as an example of what he can do in the majors, why not do the same for Hamilton?

    Hamliton 303/419/424 with over 130 steals. Plays SS.
    Based on the Reds' team makeup right now, I don't think it's a no brainer to chose Tavaras, even at the stat line he is putting up. The Reds have plenty of power in the lineup, but could sure use an infusion of a leadoff hitter/OBP guy.

    Now naturally, maybe neither prospect puts up those numbers in the majors.
    Also, I've never seen Tavaras.. but just wondering why Taveras gets his AA numbers, while Billy gets MLB estimates..
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

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    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Vote Billy !!!

    On an unrelated note, perhaps some foreshadowing: the MLB record for most steals in a game is seven. One of the players that is tied for the record: a guy named Billy Hamilton.

    Perhaps history will repeat itself
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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    Remember this is ML POTY not ML MVP. The difference is hard to explain but normal MVPs will still be named in leagues. Achievement over value is how I would explain the difference.
    Attended 1976 World Series in my Mother's Womb. Attended 1990 World Series Game 2 as a 13 year old. Want to take my son to a a World Series Game in Cincinnati in my lifetime.

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    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: Vote Billy !!!

    I'm just voting for him for the publicity. Other guys deserve it more, but I wouldn't mind seeing Hamilton's value driven up.

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    Re: Vote Billy !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by camisadelgolf View Post
    I'm just voting for him for the publicity. Other guys deserve it more, but I wouldn't mind seeing Hamilton's value driven up.
    Nothing wrong with over hyping your own prospects. The Braves do it very well with their pitching prospects.
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