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Thread: Bruce to CF, Frazier to RF on Votto return?

  1. #1
    OlafTheBlack Dan's Avatar
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    Bruce to CF, Frazier to RF on Votto return?

    This was mentioned by Mark Sheldon on Saturday 's radio broadcast as an idea being kicked around by Reds management. I think it's an interesting solution for how to keep Frazier's bat in the lineup. Ultimately, though, I don't think they'll mess with it this year. At least not on a full time basis. What does everyone else think?
    Sabermetrics is this: A batter's goal is to extend the inning. Extend enough innings and you're going to score runs. Extend more innings than your opponent and you're going to score more runs than him.

    Forget the rain. It's never an official game until the Reds piss away a run between third base and home plate. - Bluegrass Redleg

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    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: Bruce to CF, Frazier to RF on Votto return?

    The defense would definitely take a hit, but I think it's worth the offensive upgrade from Stubbs to Frazier. The thing that gives me pause is that I think Frazier is due to cool off, and Stubbs is due to heat up. Therefore, I'd only make it a once-in-a-while thing.

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    KungFu Fighter AtomicDumpling's Avatar
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    Re: Bruce to CF, Frazier to RF on Votto return?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan View Post
    This was mentioned by Mark Sheldon on Saturday 's radio broadcast as an idea being kicked around by Reds management. I think it's an interesting solution for how to keep Frazier's bat in the lineup. Ultimately, though, I don't think they'll mess with it this year. At least not on a full time basis. What does everyone else think?
    If you have a ground ball pitcher like Leake or Cueto on the mound it is feasible in my opinion. You could do it maybe once a week to get Frazier in the lineup an extra time. Frazier will be playing about 3 times per week at 3rd base, probably once a week at first and once a week in left field. That is five starts. Give Stubbs a break against a tough RH pitcher once in awhile and see how Bruce can handle centerfield.

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    Member membengal's Avatar
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    Re: Bruce to CF, Frazier to RF on Votto return?

    I think its a fine idea in GABP. Wouldn't make me very comfortable in potential playoff places like LA or SF for the road games.

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    Danger is my business! oneupper's Avatar
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    Re: Bruce to CF, Frazier to RF on Votto return?

    Quote Originally Posted by camisadelgolf View Post
    The defense would definitely take a hit, but I think it's worth the offensive upgrade from Stubbs to Frazier. The thing that gives me pause is that I think Frazier is due to cool off, and Stubbs is due to heat up. Therefore, I'd only make it a once-in-a-while thing.
    Baker was asked yesterday about Stubbs' 9th inning single after his golden sombrero. (at the end).

    http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?co...12093&c_id=mlb

    It seemed to me that he is very unhappy with Stubbs' hitting. Enough to bench him or demote him in the order? I'm not sure.
    Stubbs' been "due" for almost two years now. Fake pregnancy if you ask me.
    "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it."

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    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: Bruce to CF, Frazier to RF on Votto return?

    Yes, make the change. Atleast until it's a complete disaster.

    There have been plenty of other things we didn't think would work out this year that have.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

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    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Bruce to CF, Frazier to RF on Votto return?

    Baker shares my sentiments on Stubbs. Time's up. Play Bruce in CF and Frazier in RF for 6-7 innings, get a lead for the bullpen, and bring in defensive replacements of Heisey and Stubbs late. Works for me. Except, I agree that perhaps it isn't quite as tidy in a big ballpark. You might have to go D there, or we'll look like the Phillies outfield.
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    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Bruce to CF, Frazier to RF on Votto return?

    I'd put Frazier in LF and Ludwick in RF. But yes, I would do it. Stubbs can ride the bench and be a defensive replacement
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

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    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Bruce to CF, Frazier to RF on Votto return?

    Redszone was talking about this a while ago IIRC. It wouldn't be every day since Frazier will be playing in other spots, but an occassional start for Bruce in CF in smaller parks against a RHP would be fine. Frazier is a decent OF. If they were doing this 150 games per year, I'd think the extra pitches would pile up on the staff and it would be a horrible idea, but once or twice each week for the rest of 2012 with rosters expanding to bring in a couple extra arms if it causes a high pitch count inning or two, I don't see an issue. I agree that Stubbs should probably be in there in big parks.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

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    Re: Bruce to CF, Frazier to RF on Votto return?

    Love it.

    There's little chance Bruce's defense is poor enough to offset the 200 point boost Frazier offers as a better bat. Too, this may move Phillips up to leadoff, which would further strengthen the lineup:
    Phillips 2B
    Cozart SS
    Votto 1B
    Ludwick RF
    Bruce CF
    Frazier LF
    Rolen 3B
    Hanigan C

    Sub in Stubbs' glove late in games as parts of double switches and play he and Heisey (who's a much better hitter and decent enough glove) a couple days a week as Rolen needs a blow.

    As an added bonus, this may make Bruce a perennial All-Star. He'll get a HUGE WAR boost simply for playing the CF position.
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    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Bruce to CF, Frazier to RF on Votto return?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Love it.

    There's little chance Bruce's defense is poor enough to offset the 200 point boost Frazier offers as a better bat. Too, this may move Phillips up to leadoff, which would further strengthen the lineup:
    Phillips 2B
    Cozart SS
    Votto 1B
    Ludwick RF
    Bruce CF
    Frazier LF
    Rolen 3B
    Hanigan C

    Sub in Stubbs' glove late in games as parts of double switches and play he and Heisey (who's a much better hitter and decent enough glove) a couple days a week as Rolen needs a blow.

    As an added bonus, this may make Bruce a perennial All-Star. He'll get a HUGE WAR boost simply for playing the CF position.
    Agreed. There is no question in isolation that this move makes a better team, but I wouldn't understate the impact those extra pitches have on the health of the staff as they pile up over a season. Its a non-issue for the rest of this year though. Next year, Frazier plays 3B and hopefully a new CF is acquired in the offseason.
    Last edited by mth123; 08-26-2012 at 09:36 AM.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  13. #12
    Member 757690's Avatar
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    Re: Bruce to CF, Frazier to RF on Votto return?

    Have people seen Bruce in right this year? No way I want that defense in center, ever... never ever.

    Have people seen Frazier in left this year? No way I want that defense in right, ever... Never ever.

    This team is 26 games over .500 and in first by 7 games because of their run prevention. Messing with that is just plain stupid.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  14. #13
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: Bruce to CF, Frazier to RF on Votto return?

    If you ask me, Frazier's a better left fielder than he is a third baseman (and he's not a bad third baseman). I'm fine with him out there. But I do agree that Bruce has a lost a step or two since his debut. Having him in center might be more of a detriment than we realize.

  15. #14
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Bruce to CF, Frazier to RF on Votto return?

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Have people seen Bruce in right this year? No way I want that defense in center, ever... never ever.

    Have people seen Frazier in left this year? No way I want that defense in right, ever... Never ever.

    This team is 26 games over .500 and in first by 7 games because of their run prevention. Messing with that is just plain stupid.
    I think you are overstating the case on Frazier. He's a decent defensive OF. Probably better out there than at 3B. I might agree on Bruce, but wouldn't mind seeing it once or twice each week. I'd rather see them get a real CF over the next few days.

    Bruce' issues have been more brainlocks though. His range seems fine though may be a bit of an issue in CF. Its not like he's going to be 2005 Griffey out there.
    Last edited by mth123; 08-26-2012 at 09:44 AM.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  16. #15
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Bruce to CF, Frazier to RF on Votto return?

    I would go:

    Phillips
    Bruce
    Votto
    Ludwick
    Frazier
    Rolen
    Cozart
    Catchers

    That is a top notch lineup
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."


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