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Thread: Stubbs

  1. #61
    Member BungleBengals's Avatar
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    Re: Stubbs

    Quote Originally Posted by rgslone View Post
    Those who say quit worrying about Stubbs and just look at the record, are right in the big picture. Where Stubbs bats in the order is a tweaking issue, and probably not a major difference maker. Still, as fans we like to have things to dissect and obsess about. That doesn't mean we're not enjoying the season or ecstatic with the Reds this season.
    Agreed. I love what the Reds are doing this year and look foward to them hopefully continuing this success in years to come, but I think people are complaining because: 1. they are actually paying attention to Reds and 2. With a team as good as this one, we are trying to just find ways to improve upon an already very good team. People will always complain about something. The fact that the team is solid is a lot of positions, leads a lot of the complaints to be repetitive where we find weaknesses.
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  3. #62
    malingered here too long malcontent's Avatar
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    Re: Stubbs

    Quote Originally Posted by rgslone View Post
    He can't hit, he has never hit, and he will never hit. He's too old to be called a prospect or expect significant improvement. He is what he is. And unless he can be converted to a pitcher, he simply lacks the pitch recognition skills to be a major league player.
    Agreed.

  4. #63
    Member Ironman92's Avatar
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    Iron Horse

  5. #64
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    Re: Stubbs

    It simply boils down to this. If you had to make the choice, knowing that the three guys on the team that you choose would get 5 AB's each game and everyone else would get 4, which three guys would you choose to get 5?

    Dusty chooses two of the three that aren't much better hitters than our pitchers. A real head scratcher.

  6. #65
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    Re: Stubbs

    Some of you guys are waaaaaaaaaaay too harsh on Stubbs. He's definitely a major leaguer and one of the fastest guys in the game. The problem is he's not utilized correctly. He's not a top of the order guy. He's a .250, 15-20 HR, near 800 OPS.

    Why is he expected to be a .340 OBP guy that hits singles?

  7. #66
    I don't want to grow up Red Raindog's Avatar
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    Re: Stubbs

    Quote Originally Posted by Trajinous View Post
    Some of you guys are waaaaaaaaaaay too harsh on Stubbs. He's definitely a major leaguer and one of the fastest guys in the game. The problem is he's not utilized correctly. He's not a top of the order guy. He's a .250, 15-20 HR, near 800 OPS.

    Why is he expected to be a .340 OBP guy that hits singles?
    His BA - AB - OPS

    2009 .267 180 .762
    2010 .255 514 .773
    2011 .243 604 .685
    2012 .221 420 .649

    I don't see anything close to a .250 BA .800 OPS type of guy -- or are you saying he would be if he hit in a different spot in the lineup?

    I'm just trying to see what you are seeing in Stubbs - not have a fight
    The older I get - the better I was

    and yes - I hate the Cardinals (Reds fan since 1958)

  8. #67
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    Re: Stubbs

    i think the problem with some of you is you fall in love with potential. you need to open your eyes. he's terrible. yea i could see him maybe 1 day getting better but its time to move on. let someone else fix him. if your not going move bruce to cf and play todd f then id let him finish the year but that's it.


    also 1 more thing we didn't have wait til votto is back to bat brandon p 1st and move stubbs down.

    but that's dusty for you.

  9. #68
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    Re: Stubbs

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Righthander View Post
    His BA - AB - OPS

    2009 .267 180 .762
    2010 .255 514 .773
    2011 .243 604 .685
    2012 .221 420 .649

    I don't see anything close to a .250 BA .800 OPS type of guy -- or are you saying he would be if he hit in a different spot in the lineup?

    I'm just trying to see what you are seeing in Stubbs - not have a fight
    Fair, enough. It's all friendly debate.

    I think he would improve in a different spot, my opinion. I'm arguing that Stubbs is an useful player. I would prefer Bruce in CF and Frazier in RF but Dusty is our manager. If, that's a big IF, knocked down in the lineup, I believe he would be that .750-.800 OPS guy.

    Here's his line hitting #7 over the past 3 seasons. .258avg 330ab 756ops .320obp

    Taking his mentality away from lead-off/obp guy that hits 1 or 2 would improve his approach at the plate. I think he tries too hard at the top of the order similar to how BP did last year batting clean-up. You can't argue his value during one of his streaks. At the age of 27 (one year older than Frazier), I think it's too soon to give up on him. Look at EE, it took him til he was 29 for it to click.

    Sticking him at the top of the order is just ruining him and his trade value.

  10. #69
    Member Ironman92's Avatar
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    Fast

  11. #70
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    In his past 8 games Drew has struck out 21 times.....in Juan Pierre's 367 plate appearances this year he has 20 strikeouts.

  12. #71
    Member Ironman92's Avatar
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    This will be my last one.

    Taking his past 8 games and projecting it into a full season he'd have 425 strikeouts....which would be a record I believe.

  13. #72
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    Re: Stubbs

    Quote Originally Posted by Who Dey Time View Post
    In 2008, the options on the roster after Patterson were Hopper, Freel and Dickerson. Garbage.

    In 2009, the options after Taveras were Dickerson, McDonald and Balentein until Stubbs was a late season call up. Pure trash.

    In 2012, the option after Stubbs is Heisey. Uninspiring to say the least.

    Some have argued that Dusty give too much rope to certain guys and they might have merit but only to a point since you have to condsider that, despite the starter's struggles, plan B wasn't really worth putting out there to begin with. Is that a manager issue or a FO issue?
    Dickerson and Freel were much better those years than Taveras and Patterson. I don't think you understand how bad those two were (they make Stubbs look like an all star). Right now Heisey is better than Stubbs. Sure, we are not talking about all star level backups. Yet the starters were the worst in baseball, and Stubbs is pretty much the 2nd worst CF in baseball. When that happens, you sit them and give the backups (who put up better numbers when given a change to play) a chance to play more.

    Heck, Rolen and Ludwick were mentioned earlier. Don't forget they were not exactly playing every day. That is really all I want with Stubbs. Put Heisey out there 3 times a week (preferably against righties). That is still plenty of at bats for Stubbs to turn anything around (very similar to Ludwick). In the mean time they reduce his negative effect he currently has.

  14. #73
    I don't want to grow up Red Raindog's Avatar
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    Re: Stubbs

    Quote Originally Posted by Trajinous View Post
    Fair, enough. It's all friendly debate.

    I think he would improve in a different spot, my opinion. I'm arguing that Stubbs is an useful player. I would prefer Bruce in CF and Frazier in RF but Dusty is our manager. If, that's a big IF, knocked down in the lineup, I believe he would be that .750-.800 OPS guy.

    Here's his line hitting #7 over the past 3 seasons. .258avg 330ab 756ops .320obp

    Taking his mentality away from lead-off/obp guy that hits 1 or 2 would improve his approach at the plate. I think he tries too hard at the top of the order similar to how BP did last year batting clean-up. You can't argue his value during one of his streaks. At the age of 27 (one year older than Frazier), I think it's too soon to give up on him. Look at EE, it took him til he was 29 for it to click.

    Sticking him at the top of the order is just ruining him and his trade value.
    On your last line -- we are in complete agreement

    I think I've seen enough of him because his numbers are rapidly decling while he is reaching the magic age 27 number --- I'm with those that think he should be someone else's reclamation project.

    Heisey or someone else picked from who knows where can give us more at this point.

    I feel sorry for him -- I think he has been seriously abused by the team's management.
    The older I get - the better I was

    and yes - I hate the Cardinals (Reds fan since 1958)

  15. #74
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    Re: Stubbs

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironman92 View Post
    This will be my last one.

    Taking his past 8 games and projecting it into a full season he'd have 425 strikeouts....which would be a record I believe.
    Thats nothing.....I'm pretty sure I could strike out more than that.

  16. #75
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    Re: Stubbs

    Heisey >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stubbs


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