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Thread: Stubbs in the 2-hole

  1. #46
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    Re: Stubbs in the 2-hole

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Dusty is always right. Ask him.
    He's been right a lot this season. And as far as the asking goes, I wouldn't expect him to say differently. Kind of mirrors the self-opinions of a lot of folks around here. Nothing at all wrong with being confident in one's convictions, particularly those in leadership roles.
    Last edited by RANDY IN INDY; 08-31-2012 at 04:10 PM.
    Talent is God Given: be humble.
    Fame is man given: be thankful.
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  3. #47
    Danger is my business! oneupper's Avatar
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    Re: Stubbs in the 2-hole

    Of course, I think we aren't looking at the lineup correctly.

    Cozart
    Stubbs
    Phillips
    Ludwick
    Bruce
    Frazier
    Rolen
    Hanigan
    Pitcher

    If you consider that Cozart and Stubbs are out most of the time...it turns into

    Phillips
    Ludwick
    Bruce
    Frazier
    Rolen
    Hanigan
    Pitcher
    Cozart
    Stubbs.

    This is a great lineup.
    Phillips is a good leadoff guy. Without the pressure to drive in Votto, he can use all the field without worrying about a GIDP. When Stubbs or Cozart ARE on they are usually on second or third, because they hit X-base hits a lot of the time, and when not...Stubbs steals second.
    Ludwick is a fine second batter. He thrived in that spot in St. Louis and enjoys it again.
    Bruce (or sometimes Frazier) is great in the third spot, because it makes him believe he is a high BA guy like Votto and some of it rubs off on him.
    Frazier hitting cleanup because he is supposed to drive in runs, which he has done admirably.
    Rolen is fifth, so he doesn't have to run around the bases so much, but can rather unclog them.
    Hanigan sixth, because we all know that 6th is like second leadoff.
    Pitcher -seventh because we have some guys who can hit like Arroyo and Leake and even Latos and Bailey sometimes. Cueto can't hit, but it doesn't matter because his hair is the prettiest.
    Cozart is eighth which is where shortstops hit normally. Just ask Paul Janish. His occasional power is a boost.
    Stubbs hits last...as he should.

    Seriously though, the thing you want to do is bunch your best hitters together, because you usually need more than one hit to score a run. In the REDs case, they are bunched, just not in a traditional way, since the worst hitters are 9-1-2.

    Votto is going to mess this up.
    Last edited by oneupper; 08-31-2012 at 04:40 PM.
    "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it."

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  4. #48
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    Re: Stubbs in the 2-hole

    since the worst hitters are 9-1-2.
    Not when Mike Leake is playing.
    Talent is God Given: be humble.
    Fame is man given: be thankful.
    Conceit is self given: be careful.

    John Wooden

  5. #49
    KungFu Fighter AtomicDumpling's Avatar
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    Re: Stubbs in the 2-hole

    Quote Originally Posted by camisadelgolf View Post
    The things that drives me nuts is that I have a feeling people wouldn't have nearly as big of a problem with Stubbs' BA/OBP/SLG if it weren't for all the strikeouts.
    Well Zack Cozart proves your point. People love him but his stats are very similar to Drew Stubbs'.

    It absolutely is the strikeouts that drive people crazy. Until people realize that strikeouts are no more harmful than contact outs people will always consider the strikeout the ultimate failure. Most people will never understand that fact though.

    If you kept Stubbs' batting average, on-base percentage and slugging percentage and every other stat exactly the same as they are now but cut the strikeouts in half he wouldn't catch much grief at all but his production would not improve (because his stats are still the same).

    You can make a strong case that his attempts to reduce the strikeouts are the cause of his regression the last couple years. His power is way down, possibly due to attempting to make more contact and hit the ball where it is pitched. If I were him I would go with the Jose Bautista approach (not 'roids) and try to yank everything down the left field line. He hits way too many fly balls to centerfield that could be homers down the line. He is always going to strike out a lot, so he should at least try to maximize his power numbers. He is never going to be a high-contact slap hitter. He is too tall, his arms are too long and his swing is too slow for that. He should swing hard, aim for where the fences are closest and run like a gazelle until they throw him out.

  6. #50
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    Re: Stubbs in the 2-hole

    Tend to agree. Just cause he's fast doesn't mean you can make him a contact, slap hitter.
    Talent is God Given: be humble.
    Fame is man given: be thankful.
    Conceit is self given: be careful.

    John Wooden

  7. #51
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Stubbs in the 2-hole

    Quote Originally Posted by oneupper View Post
    If you consider that Cozart and Stubbs are out most of the time...it turns into

    Phillips
    Ludwick
    Bruce
    Frazier
    Rolen
    Hanigan
    Pitcher
    Cozart
    Stubbs.

    Seriously though, the thing you want to do is bunch your best hitters together, because you usually need more than one hit to score a run. In the REDs case, they are bunched, just not in a traditional way, since the worst hitters are 9-1-2.

    .

    Only problem with this is that you're then only working with 25 outs instead of 27.

    I guess it's Dusty's way of keeping the game fair.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  8. #52
    Danger is my business! oneupper's Avatar
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    Re: Stubbs in the 2-hole

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    Only problem with this is that you're then only working with 25 outs instead of 27.

    I guess it's Dusty's way of keeping the game fair.
    Yes, but you keep the surprise factor! You attack from the rear (of the lineup).
    "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it."

    http://dalmady.blogspot.com

  9. #53
    Bunn-O-matic max venable's Avatar
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    Re: Stubbs in the 2-hole

    Today's game is a good example of why I fear the Reds will struggle in the playoffs. 1 and 2 hitters combined to go 0-8. People have pushed back on me saying hey, the lineup has led to the most wins in the majors, etc. Again, check the Reds' record vs. potential playoff teams. It's sub-.500. Cozart and Stubbs automatic outs at the top of the order will doom this team in the post season. It's a major concern.
    For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism.

  10. #54
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Stubbs in the 2-hole

    Quote Originally Posted by max venable View Post
    Today's game is a good example of why I fear the Reds will struggle in the playoffs. 1 and 2 hitters combined to go 0-8. People have pushed back on me saying hey, the lineup has led to the most wins in the majors, etc. Again, check the Reds' record vs. potential playoff teams. It's sub-.500. Cozart and Stubbs automatic outs at the top of the order will doom this team in the post season. It's a major concern.
    I have them at 27-26 vs potential playoff teams.

    The other NL playoff teams, as of today:

    29-23 Wash
    26-27 SF
    23-33 Atl
    25-31 Stl

  11. #55
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Stubbs in the 2-hole

    Quote Originally Posted by max venable View Post
    Today's game is a good example of why I fear the Reds will struggle in the playoffs. 1 and 2 hitters combined to go 0-8. People have pushed back on me saying hey, the lineup has led to the most wins in the majors, etc. Again, check the Reds' record vs. potential playoff teams. It's sub-.500. Cozart and Stubbs automatic outs at the top of the order will doom this team in the post season. It's a major concern.
    vs. Teams >.500

    Washington (29-23, .558)
    Los Angeles (27-23, .540)
    Cincinnati (27-26, .509)
    San Francisco (27-29, .482)
    Pittsburgh (26-32, .448)
    Atlanta (24-32, .429)
    St. Louis (24-32, .429)
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  12. #56
    Bunn-O-matic max venable's Avatar
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    Re: Stubbs in the 2-hole

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    I have them at 27-26 vs potential playoff teams.

    The other NL playoff teams, as of today:

    29-23 Wash
    26-27 SF
    23-33 Atl
    25-31 Stl
    Oh, well then, I grossly overstated things. I feel much better now, knowing that we actually own the other potential playoff teams.
    For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism.

  13. #57
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Stubbs in the 2-hole

    Quote Originally Posted by max venable View Post
    Oh, well then, I grossly overstated things. I feel much better now, knowing that we actually own the other potential playoff teams.
    Or that everyone is in the same boat or worse.

  14. #58
    Reds Slacker '07 RedsMan3203's Avatar
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    Re: Stubbs in the 2-hole

    Good news... Stubbs is out the 2 hole...

    Bad News (to some) ... He is leading off tonight....

    Carry On.
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  15. #59
    .377 in 1905 CySeymour's Avatar
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    Re: Stubbs in the 2-hole

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsMan3203 View Post
    Good news... Stubbs is out the 2 hole...

    Bad News (to some) ... He is leading off tonight....

    Carry On.
    With Valdez hitting second.



    Yes, the Reds are in first...but how in the world can Dusty really justify his lineups?
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.

  16. #60
    Reds Slacker '07 RedsMan3203's Avatar
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    Re: Stubbs in the 2-hole

    Quote Originally Posted by CySeymour View Post
    With Valdez hitting second.



    Yes, the Reds are in first...but how in the world can Dusty really justify his lineups?
    Cuz, they are in 1st?

    Best I can think of.
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