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Thread: Giving credit where credit's due

  1. #1
    Bunn-O-matic max venable's Avatar
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    Giving credit where credit's due

    What a fun season this one's been. First team in MLB to win 80 games. Good pitching, timely hitting, and great defense.

    And all this with a decent amount of obstacles to overcome:

    • Best player (Votto) out for nearly two months
    • Closer (Madson) out for entire season
    • Rolen's nagging injuries causing him to miss significant time
    • Other bullpen issues (Bray out most of the season, Masset out for the entire year)
    • No true leadoff hitter
    • Very little production from the 1 and 2 hitters
    • Mesoroco not living up to expectations


    And I'm sure there are more (feel free to add to the list).

    But the bottom line is that Dusty deserves credit. Walt deserves credit. And, of course, the players deserve credit. They've stepped up.

    As much as we moan and complain about Dusty's lineups and in-game decisions, the bottom line is that this team has the best record in baseball right now...in spite of the issues listed. Amazing.
    For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism.

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  3. #2
    Member mattfeet's Avatar
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    Re: Giving credit where credit's due

    If I, as a player, had to pick a manager to play for, it'd undoubtedly be Dusty. This year's team has been through a lot of diversity, and it's impressive that they've all stayed the course and actually IMPROVED when times were tough. NO ONE thought we'd played better ball without Votto than with him. Every single day it seems someone different steps up their game to make something happen.

    My only fear is a repeat of the 2010 postseason. Im not worried about not making the playoffs one bit, but a 2010 rehash would be a titanic disappointment. Truth be told, I can see it happening, but I sincerely hope I'm wrong. Our young players have been there once before, adding Rolen, Ludwick, and Valdez might prove to be HUGE come 2012's run for the championship.

    That said, I have never in my life enjoyed a season of Reds' baseball more than I am right now. Dusty has his gaffs and shortcomings, but no manager is perfect. He absolutely deserves credit for this year.

    -Matt

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    Member mdccclxix's Avatar
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    Re: Giving credit where credit's due

    I don't expect the Reds to look like they did in 2010. I think there will be a lot of composure and a lot of desire to put some wins on the board and advance. And you know Dusty's locked in right now. He and his players will be more prepared than last time around. That's who this Reds team appears to be this year, IMO.

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    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: Giving credit where credit's due

    How much credit does Dusty deserve for batting Cozart leadoff with his terrible OBP? Or for following him up with Stubbs and *his* terrible OBP?
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    Reds Slacker '07 RedsMan3203's Avatar
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    Re: Giving credit where credit's due

    For the record... When Votto went down, there was alot of panic around...
    But, I believed in this team....
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    Im a great person Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Giving credit where credit's due

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsMan3203 View Post
    For the record... When Votto went down, there was alot of panic around...
    But, I believed in this team....
    Stop taking credit for things one of the Backstreet Boys said.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

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    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Giving credit where credit's due

    Well, I don't expect a repeat of the 2010 playoffs at all.

    We aren't going to face a juggernaut like the 2010 Phillies in the first round.
    If we hold on to the best record in the NL, we get the wildcard team.
    Not a given that we will beat the WC team, but we won't get dominated by them. Let's say the Nats end up with the best record.. then we get the Giants. Giants are a good team, but not as good as the 2010 Phils.

    In the playoffs, we are going to start with 2012 Ceuto and Latos, as opposed to Volquez and Homer.. The bullpen is better this year too. (Chapman vs. Cordero.. is that an upgrade? )
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    Member tommycash's Avatar
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    Re: Giving credit where credit's due

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    Well, I don't expect a repeat of the 2010 playoffs at all.

    We aren't going to face a juggernaut like the 2010 Phillies in the first round.
    If we hold on to the best record in the NL, we get the wildcard team.
    Not a given that we will beat the WC team, but we won't get dominated by them. Let's say the Nats end up with the best record.. then we get the Giants. Giants are a good team, but not as good as the 2010 Phils.

    In the playoffs, we are going to start with 2012 Ceuto and Latos, as opposed to Volquez and Homer.. The bullpen is better this year too. (Chapman vs. Cordero.. is that an upgrade? )
    Agreed
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    Bunn-O-matic max venable's Avatar
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    Re: Giving credit where credit's due

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool View Post
    How much credit does Dusty deserve for batting Cozart leadoff with his terrible OBP? Or for following him up with Stubbs and *his* terrible OBP?
    Hey, I'm first in line to pile on Dusty for his lineups. I'm saying he deserves a measure of credit for leading this team to where it is right now. There's a lot more to managing (a LOT more) than just filling out a lineup card.
    For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism.

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    Future Fame of Holler WildcatFan's Avatar
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    Re: Giving credit where credit's due

    Quote Originally Posted by max venable View Post
    Hey, I'm first in line to pile on Dusty for his lineups. I'm saying he deserves a measure of credit for leading this team to where it is right now. There's a lot more to managing (a LOT more) than just filling out a lineup card.
    This.

    Like I just said in another thread, Dusty and the team can be even better than they are now, which is crazy. Here's hoping it happens!
    "I never argue with people who say baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn't. And that's what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski

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    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: Giving credit where credit's due

    The Reds have won despite Dusty. They'd probably have 85 to 90 wins already if he'd change the 1 and 2 hitters. I'm tired of watching Stubbs K at a ridiculous rate.
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  13. #12
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Giving credit where credit's due

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    The Reds have won despite Dusty. They'd probably have 85 to 90 wins already if he'd change the 1 and 2 hitters. I'm tired of watching Stubbs K at a ridiculous rate.
    Are you serious? They have the best record in baseball right now. I think winning 5-10 more games is pretty unrealistic.

  14. #13
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: Giving credit where credit's due

    Quote Originally Posted by max venable View Post
    Hey, I'm first in line to pile on Dusty for his lineups. I'm saying he deserves a measure of credit for leading this team to where it is right now. There's a lot more to managing (a LOT more) than just filling out a lineup card.
    True, but this team had the same manager and nearly the same lineup last year, and wasn't very good. In my mind, the players (especially the starting rotation) and the GM who acquired them deserve all the credit for the team's success.

    Dusty didn't take a rag-tag bunch of scruffy nobodies and turn them into a baseball machine. He was blessed with an incredibly talented roster, and he has successfully avoided running them into the ground. So, kudos for not failing, I guess.
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    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Giving credit where credit's due

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool View Post
    True, but this team had the same manager and nearly the same lineup last year, and wasn't very good. In my mind, the players (especially the starting rotation) and the GM who acquired them deserve all the credit for the team's success.

    Dusty didn't take a rag-tag bunch of scruffy nobodies and turn them into a baseball machine. He was blessed with an incredibly talented roster, and he has successfully avoided running them into the ground. So, kudos for not failing, I guess.
    It really is incredible how difficult it is for folks to tip their hat to Dusty Baker. I wonder what he'd have to do to get just a tiny little hat tip. Carry the record of the 1869 club? They'd probably grouse about letting the first game be rained out (http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95165) or gripe that we lost to the Atlantics the following year (didn't Dusty and Hank Aaron play in that game?).
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    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Giving credit where credit's due

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool View Post
    True, but this team had the same manager and nearly the same lineup last year, and wasn't very good. In my mind, the players (especially the starting rotation) and the GM who acquired them deserve all the credit for the team's success.

    Dusty didn't take a rag-tag bunch of scruffy nobodies and turn them into a baseball machine. He was blessed with an incredibly talented roster, and he has successfully avoided running them into the ground. So, kudos for not failing, I guess.
    Now wait, there is only one addition to the rotation from the prior year. The bullpen acquisitions are kudos to WJ, esp. in light of injuries, but Dusty has managed the bullpen very, very well this season. The roster is the same but for a healthy Cozart and the addition of Ludwick. Dramatically different results from essentially the same roster that produced an also ran last season.

    2011 was squarely on the shoulders of a poorly performing starting rotation that led to wearing out a good bullpen and turning them into a below average bullpen.

    How much credit to give Dusty for the dramatic turnaround to the best record in baseball? Who the heck knows, but to dismiss that he deserves any credit for this season's success is simply disingenuous.
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