Turn Off Ads?
Page 6 of 9 FirstFirst ... 23456789 LastLast
Results 76 to 90 of 127

Thread: What do YOU want to talk about?

  1. #76
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Right Down Broadway
    Posts
    18,574

    Re: What do YOU want to talk about?

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Bull crap.
    Do you trust a rating that says Jay Bruce is a poor defender, which I assume is what a negative UZR represents? That doesn't even pass the sniff test.
    Can't win with 'em

    Can't win without 'em

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #77
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    18,537

    Re: What do YOU want to talk about?

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    Do you trust a rating that says Jay Bruce is a poor defender, which I assume is what a negative UZR represents? That doesn't even pass the sniff test.
    I'm not sure why it's so hard to believe that Bruce isn't having a good defensive year relative to the Heywards, Ichiros, Reddicks and Uptons etc of the league.

    Both UZR and Dewans point to a consensus on this point about Bruce's defense.

    I think it certainly passes the sniff test.

    This is the second year a row both suggest that Bruce is morphing into a roughly neutral defender.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  4. #78
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Bedford, KY
    Posts
    8,992

    Re: What do YOU want to talk about?

    Why not?

    As compared to other right fielders, I'd argue Bruce, this season, has been below average. He's had multiple vapor locks in the field and doesn't get to all that many more balls than others who play the position. His fielding percentage is lower than league average as well, as he has six errors. His arm is strong, and he ranks 4th in assists in the league. That's not horrid.

    In 2012, among all RF qualified, he ranks 15th in the league in Fld.

    Considering there are 8 former major league CF ahead of him, it'd pass my smell test.
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
    -- Christy Matthewson
    "Show me a good loser and I'll show you an idiot."
    -- Leo Durocher

  5. #79
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    18,537

    Re: What do YOU want to talk about?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Why not?

    As compared to other right fielders, I'd argue Bruce, this season, has been below average. He's had multiple vapor locks in the field and doesn't get to all that many more balls than others who play the position. His fielding percentage is lower than league average as well, as he has six errors. His arm is strong, and he ranks 4th in assists in the league. That's not horrid.

    In 2012, among all RF qualified, he ranks 15th in the league in Fld.

    Considering there are 8 former major league CF ahead of him, it'd pass my smell test.
    Yep. Pretty much this is an issue where the eyes and the spreadsheet meet.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  6. #80
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    16,296

    Re: What do YOU want to talk about?

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    UZR is talked about all of the time both as an isolated metric for defense and as a component of WAR. It's used all of the time so it's tough to take an argument that UZR is only used when it supports a person's point very seriously.
    I heard a lot more about it when it was Janish/Cabrera, the field/Gomes and when Jay was killing it in UZR. We heard that he was a 5 WAR guy at the age of twenty three. Now no one talks about his WAR, it's all about his OPS.

    It mostly gets dusted off only when it is right for the argument.

  7. #81
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    18,537

    Re: What do YOU want to talk about?

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    I heard a lot more about it when it was Janish/Cabrera, the field/Gomes and when Jay was killing it in UZR. We heard that he was a 5 WAR guy at the age of twenty three. Now no one talks about his WAR, it's all about his OPS.

    It mostly gets dusted off only when it is right for the argument.
    You've never heard me pack WAR/UZR into storage in favor of OPS.

    Bruce will end up being about a 3 WAR player this season.

    Like it or not, he's been an above average player and his bat will end up being about 20 to 25 runs above average if he doesn't tank in September. It's a shame that he's largely been a neutral defender the last few seasons but that doesn't change the fact that he's been a very valuable player for the Reds since being called up.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  8. #82
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    16,296

    Re: What do YOU want to talk about?

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    You've never heard me pack WAR/UZR into storage in favor of OPS.

    Bruce will end up being about a 3 WAR player this season.

    Like it or not, he's been an above average player and his bat will end up being about 20 to 25 runs above average if he doesn't tank in September. It's a shame that he's largely been a neutral defender the last few seasons but that doesn't change the fact that he's been a very valuable player for the Reds since being called up.
    I didn't really have you in mind when I was thinking about this phenomenon.

  9. #83
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    18,537

    Re: What do YOU want to talk about?

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    I didn't really have you in mind when I was thinking about this phenomenon.
    I know that but I just don't see a mass exodus from UZR or consideration for his defense concerning Bruce and how he has been defended on redszone.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  10. #84
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    16,296

    Re: What do YOU want to talk about?

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    I know that but I just don't see a mass exodus from UZR or consideration for his defense concerning Bruce and how he has been defended on redszone.
    In the tons of threads and posts about Bruce and the like, I haven't seen anyone on the positive side of the argument talking WAR. There were tons more when his UZR was through the roof.

  11. #85
    Member membengal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Baltimore
    Posts
    8,956

    Re: What do YOU want to talk about?

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    I didn't really have you in mind when I was thinking about this phenomenon.
    So much passive aggressiveness on this board. Name names, as opposed to general allegations.

  12. #86
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Right Down Broadway
    Posts
    18,574

    Re: What do YOU want to talk about?

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    I'm not sure why it's so hard to believe that Bruce isn't having a good defensive year relative to the Heywards, Ichiros, Reddicks and Uptons etc of the league.

    Both UZR and Dewans point to a consensus on this point about Bruce's defense.

    I think it certainly passes the sniff test.

    This is the second year a row both suggest that Bruce is morphing into a roughly neutral defender.
    Are you saying that UZR considers what other defenders are doing to arrive at an individual's rating? Further, "eyes meets spreadsheet" is not really a fair statement, since my understanding of UZR would include "eyes" making subjective decisions on events, if I understand the gathering of data correctly.
    Can't win with 'em

    Can't win without 'em

  13. #87
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Right Down Broadway
    Posts
    18,574

    Re: What do YOU want to talk about?

    Quote Originally Posted by membengal View Post
    So much passive aggressiveness on this board. Name names, as opposed to general allegations.
    Which would give rise to the response of making "ad hominem" attacks.
    Can't win with 'em

    Can't win without 'em

  14. #88
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    18,537

    Re: What do YOU want to talk about?

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    Are you saying that UZR considers what other defenders are doing to arrive at an individual's rating? Further, "eyes meets spreadsheet" is not really a fair statement, since my understanding of UZR would include "eyes" making subjective decisions on events, if I understand the gathering of data correctly.
    The baseline for UZR and dewans is relative to their peers...
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  15. #89
    Boom Goes the Dynamite Screwball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    West Chester
    Posts
    2,415

    Re: What do YOU want to talk about?

    Well, I guess we found out what we want to talk about...

  16. #90
    Member cincrazy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    South Vienna, OH
    Posts
    4,341

    Re: What do YOU want to talk about?

    I know hardly a thing about UZR. But my eyes tell me Bruce hasn't been a very good defender this year. He's misplayed a few fly balls, missed a few cutoff men, but his biggest problem has been getting calls out of the corner, balls bouncing off the walls, and groundballs. I've lost count of the number a times a ball has shot past him or gone between his legs, or a ball that he's picked up and subsequently dropped. A lot of the mistakes seem to be more mental than anything, just a lack of focus to some extent. That's the most disappointing part for me.


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25