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Thread: 8/31/12 - Reds at Astros

  1. #241
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: 8/31/12 - Reds at Astros

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRedsFan View Post
    Tell me about this Rodriguez kid.
    Hit everywhere until slumping in AAA. Doesn't walk, just hits.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

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  3. #242
    Pitching is the thing WVRedsFan's Avatar
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    Re: 8/31/12 - Reds at Astros

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    Hit everywhere until slumping in AAA. Doesn't walk, just hits.
    Thanks. Looked at his stats. Seemed to fall off this year.
    www.ris-news.com
    "You only have to bat a thousand in two things; flying and heart transplants. Everything else you can go 4-for-5."
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  4. #243
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: 8/31/12 - Reds at Astros

    We're still good
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

  5. #244
    Pitching is the thing WVRedsFan's Avatar
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    Re: 8/31/12 - Reds at Astros

    Good win.
    www.ris-news.com
    "You only have to bat a thousand in two things; flying and heart transplants. Everything else you can go 4-for-5."
    -Beano Cook

  6. #245
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    Re: 8/31/12 - Reds at Astros

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    What evidence do you have that Heisey isn't patient, as in he doesn't wait for good pitches? To me, all the criticism of him is just that he swings early in the count. I don't see any evidence that he routinely is swinging at bad pitches.

    He would only be better off being patient if it guarantees him of seeing better pitches by waiting. If you're not going to see a better pitch deeper in the count, it doesn't benefit you much to wait unless the pitcher you're facing has poor control.

    Sorry but this fundamental argument is the strawman. It's not a fundamental. It's a style. Not everyone is better off waiting on pitches. Not everyone can be like Albert Pujols or Joey Votto. Some guys are more comfortable swinging the bat when they see a good pitch early in the count. That's smart hitting. The trick is to know when to say when, not waiting for the sake of waiting.

    By your logic, baseball players largely had bad fundamentals for the first century of baseball, as pitch counts per plate appearance only came up in the last 10 years or so. It used to be that you had a piece of timber in your hands because you went to the plate looking for the best pitches to use it with. You didn't go to the plate looking to add pitches to a pitch tally or hope to draw a walk instead of hitting.
    You insist on distorting my argument. The issue is not whether to swing at good, hittable pitches early. The issue is being overly aggressive rather than waiting.

    Heisey is a .750 OPS hitter on the first pitch and overall. He has walked 12 times the entire season.

    His current approach is resulting in Heisey being a fourth outfielder.
    Last edited by Kc61; 08-31-2012 at 11:13 PM.

  7. #246
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: 8/31/12 - Reds at Astros

    Ho hum. Starting September almost 10 games up.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  8. #247
    Member Reds Fanatic's Avatar
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    Re: 8/31/12 - Reds at Astros

    Altuve grounds out to short. Reds win 9-3! Magic number now 22 and hopefuly will very shortly be 21.

  9. #248
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    Re: 8/31/12 - Reds at Astros

    more please!
    Is it "next season" yet?

  10. #249
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    Re: 8/31/12 - Reds at Astros

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    You insist on distorting my argument. The issue is not whether to swing at good, hittable pitches early. The issue is being overly aggressive rather than waiting.

    Heisey is a .750 OPS hitter on the first pitch and overall. He has walked 12 times the entire season.

    His current approach is resulting in Heisey being a fourth outfielder.
    You're complaining about a guy with a .750 OPS... yet his OPS on the first pitch is the same as his OPS overall? Sounds like that's evidence that being "patient" doesn't help him too much as a hitter.

    What's interesting is that Heisey's career OPS on the first pitch is 1.002 and you want him to change that?

    His OPS when ahead: .964. Even count: .877. Behind in the count: .530.

    Sounds like your ideology isn't very good for him personally.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  11. #250
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: 8/31/12 - Reds at Astros

    Hard not to like how humble Bruce is.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

  12. #251
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    Re: 8/31/12 - Reds at Astros

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    You're complaining about a guy with a .750 OPS... yet his OPS on the first pitch is the same as his OPS overall? Sounds like that's evidence that being "patient" doesn't help him too much as a hitter.

    What's interesting is that Heisey's career OPS on the first pitch is 1.002 and you want him to change that?

    His OPS when ahead: .964. Even count: .877. Behind in the count: .530.

    Sounds like your ideology isn't very good for him personally.

  13. #252
    Pitching is the thing WVRedsFan's Avatar
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    Re: 8/31/12 - Reds at Astros

    Never in my wildest dreams did I expect to be this far up with one month to go. Great job.
    Last edited by WVRedsFan; 08-31-2012 at 11:34 PM.
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  14. #253
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    Re: 8/31/12 - Reds at Astros

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    You're complaining about a guy with a .750 OPS... yet his OPS on the first pitch is the same as his OPS overall? Sounds like that's evidence that being "patient" doesn't help him too much as a hitter.

    What's interesting is that Heisey's career OPS on the first pitch is 1.002 and you want him to change that?

    His OPS when ahead: .964. Even count: .877. Behind in the count: .530.

    Sounds like your ideology isn't very good for him personally.
    It's always a good philosophy to wait for good pitches, get ahead in the count if possible, and avoid being overly aggressive.

  15. #254
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    Re: 8/31/12 - Reds at Astros

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    It's always a good philosophy to wait for good pitches, get ahead in the count if possible, and avoid being overly aggressive.
    It's not working for him. It's like telling Adam Dunn to swing earlier in the count to avoid striking out and be a better hitter. He is better, beacuse he is patient.....he would not be better the other way around. Clemente..... Vlad.... Yogi Berra. Guys never worked counts really. They were great hitters though who could hit any pitch at any time. Try making them approach plate appearances like they were Eddie Joost or Joe Morgan.

  16. #255
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: 8/31/12 - Reds at Astros

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    It's always a good philosophy to wait for good pitches, get ahead in the count if possible, and avoid being overly aggressive.
    Heisey's career numbers suggest otherwise.

    1.002 OPS on the first pitch. What part of that is problematic for you?

    Like Tony said... you don't try to make hitters into something they're not. Some people prefer high tops. Other prefer loafers with khakis. Some people like hitting early in the count, others prefer waiting until later. Not everyone can be Joey Votto or Albert Pujols. Joe Morgan had a Hall of Fame career hitting pitches early in the count. Does he have bad fundamentals?

    A hitter should hit the pitch he feels he has the best chance of hitting. Doesn't really matter if that's 0-0, 0-2 or 2-0.

    A walk is preferable to a strikeout, but a good pitch to hit is preferable to the mere chance of a walk.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda


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