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Thread: Vulture wins

  1. #1
    Haunted by walks
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    Vulture wins

    As advanced as baseball scoring is these days, why do we still have "vulture wins"? Arredondo's W wasn't as brazen as some, but Arroyo gives up one run through six and Arredondo gives up two runs in one. He did nothing to earn the victory. Is there a reasonable alternative to propose?

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    Danger is my business! oneupper's Avatar
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    Re: Vulture wins

    Quote Originally Posted by BCubb2003 View Post
    Is there a reasonable alternative to propose?
    Complaining about it?
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    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: Vulture wins

    I agree. I think the official scorer should be able to determine which pitcher deserves it or maybe not give any pitcher the win.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

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  5. #4
    Member mattfeet's Avatar
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    Re: Vulture wins

    I agree 110%.

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    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Vulture wins

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    I agree. I think the official scorer should be able to determine which pitcher deserves it or maybe not give any pitcher the win.
    I don't know what to do about it, but making it subjective would open up a can of worms in terms of pitchers lobbying for wins in one way or another.

  7. #6
    2013 W.S. Champions Nathan's Avatar
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    Re: Vulture wins

    ...Which is why wins/losses, RBI's and Runs Scored are three of the least important, and rather over-rated, stats when looking at a players abilities.
    "It's better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt."

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  8. #7
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    Re: Vulture wins

    Phil Regan. The Vulture.
    Talent is God Given: be humble.
    Fame is man given: be thankful.
    Conceit is self given: be careful.

    John Wooden

  9. #8
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Vulture wins

    One player gets credit for the entire team accomplishing something. Perfect stat.

  10. #9
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    Re: Vulture wins

    What if relievers just couldn't get wins or losses? Nobody cares what a reliever's W-L record is. A reliever's wins are strictly a function of when the offense scores. It might be odd for a reliever to come in, blow the game, and not get a loss, but there are better ways to account for that, such as inherited runs, holds, blown saves.

  11. #10
    Bunn-O-matic max venable's Avatar
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    Re: Vulture wins

    Agree with much of what has been posted. The crazy thing is the W-L stat is all based on WHEN a team scores the runs. Goofy. If the Reds had had their big inning in the 3rd today, BA get the W. Arredondo's poor outing would have affected nothing. Know what I mean?
    For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism.

  12. #11
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Vulture wins

    Good pitchers will usually have a lot of wins.

    But to use them as a form of comparison or to rank pitchers is pretty fruitless.

    However, am I allowed to think it is cool that Cueto leads the majors in wins?

  13. #12
    Member Spitball's Avatar
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    Re: Vulture wins

    It is probably too late to change things without having to get use to a bunch of new standards of excellence and win-loss records. I'd rather stick with the traditional measures.

    I believe modern statistics have pretty much put wins and losses in the proper perspective. I'd hate to see changes made that would result in a bunch of 25 game winners.
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  14. #13
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Vulture wins

    I wonder if a reliever has recently received more money from a team because he used the W/L record argument?
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  15. #14
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Vulture wins

    Quote Originally Posted by BCubb2003 View Post
    What if relievers just couldn't get wins or losses? Nobody cares what a reliever's W-L record is. A reliever's wins are strictly a function of when the offense scores. It might be odd for a reliever to come in, blow the game, and not get a loss, but there are better ways to account for that, such as inherited runs, holds, blown saves.
    I could really care less about a starters wins/losses. Yeah, good pitchers tend to have good records, but they don't always and not good pitchers sometimes wind up with good records.

  16. #15
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Vulture wins

    It's tradition how they give out wins.. In baseball's defense, they need to make it unambiguous as possible. I don't want to give the official scorer any more power in decision making than he already has.

    Sure, Arroyo got screwed out of a win today.. but there's been times he's not had a quality start and still got the win.

    Over time, usually, W-L record is correlated with a pitchers' skill It's not gospel or a perfect stat, but if Arrondo were to give up 2 runs in every appearance, he'd get very few wins, and plenty of losses.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

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