Vulture wins

[WVRedsFan]

I may be wrong, but I seem to remember, perhaps faulty, that the official scorer can award the win to another pitcher other than the one who just happened to be in the game when the go ahead runs were scored. If so, and I know it used to be, rarely do they ever use this discretion. Today was a good day to use it, but it was not to be.

I think W-L record is fine and depends on the offense putting up runs. The Reds, and most teams, if they put up runs early can give that starter runs early. Unfortunately, our team tends to come from behind and that stifles the won-lost record. Twenty wins is a huge accomplishment, and only Cueto has a chance for that, but in reality, Latos should have 15 and Arroyo just as many. Just the way it goes.

[Kc61]

Rule 10.17 (b) allows the official scorer to decline to award a win to a relief pitcher who is ineffectual in a brief outing. That rule is very seldom used, and I'm not sure Arredondo's iouting would qualify as a brief outing since he did pitch the full inning. Under the rule there must be a subsequent pitcher who deserves the victory.

[gilpdawg]

Rule 10.17 (b) allows the official scorer to decline to award a win to a relief pitcher who is ineffectual in a brief outing. That rule is very seldom used, and I'm not sure Arredondo's iouting would qualify as a brief outing since he did pitch the full inning. Under the rule there must be a subsequent pitcher who deserves the victory.

I've never seen that rule used, that I can remember.

[Always Red]

I've never seen that rule used, that I can remember.

It happened to the Reds (Osvaldo Fernandez) in 2001:

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showp...1&postcount=13

This is the game:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/bo...00108050.shtml

[Vottomatic]

Maybe set parameters where if the starter goes 6 innings and gives up less than 4 runs (quality start) but is losing when he exits, and his offense scores the winning runs when he's out of the game, he can still get the win.

[mattfeet]

Maybe set parameters where if the starter goes 6 innings and gives up less than 4 runs (quality start) but is losing when he exits, and his offense scores the winning runs when he's out of the game, he can still get the win.

I think this is a good idea unless a relief pitcher comes in and pitches very well.

[Raisor]

I pretty much have no idea how many wins any of the Reds pitchers have. I'll take that back, I know Cueto has 17 but only because someone posted it in this thread.

[RedsManRick]

A pitcher's job is to win games. Clearly Arredondo did his job better than Arroyo.

[RollyInRaleigh]

In context, your comment is about a really stupid rule regarding wins. Much hyperbole.

[Tom Servo]

A pitcher's job is to win games. Clearly Arredondo did his job better than Arroyo.

[nate]

A pitcher's job is to win games. Clearly Arredondo did his job better than Arroyo.

Good one, Rick!

I always thought the win should go to the play who contributed most to the team win. Kind of like an MVP for the game. I think that could be measured now (WPA?) and would be a pretty interesting marriage of traditional and modern.

[RollyInRaleigh]

And while you're at it, let the same people who vote for the HOF make those decisions.

[RedsManRick]

It's really silly when you think about it. The core criterion for the assignment of the pitching "win" is to be the pitcher who pitched the half inning prior to his team taking the lead for good. In other words, regardless of how well or poorly a guy actually pitches, all that matters is that his offense is better and that it happens while he's in the game. Yeah, that's makes sense.

[Tony Cloninger]

Roy Face was a true Vulture when he won 18. In fact I am pretty sure he blew some games himself, more than just a few....to help get him those 18 wins.

He was not a nice person either.

[traderumor]

It's really silly when you think about it. The core criterion for the assignment of the pitching "win" is to be the pitcher who pitched the half inning prior to his team taking the lead for good. In other words, regardless of how well or poorly a guy actually pitches, all that matters is that his offense is better and that it happens while he's in the game. Yeah, that's makes sense.

The win/loss rules were in place in a different time and place when the pitching staff was managed completely differently. It is about as archaic as batting average, but still, that is all you can get the clowns doing baseball telecasts to post as a primary stat. The "official" AB is archaic, but so ingrained, it is likely to still be used. Sort of like the english and metric system.