Turn Off Ads?
Page 4 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 112

Thread: 2012 NL MVP

  1. #46
    Danger is my business! oneupper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Back in Florida
    Posts
    8,158

    Re: 2012 NL MVP

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfaninbsg View Post
    Another home run and two more RBIs for Bruce today. I don't think the guy is MVP caliber but, he's certainly a lot better than some on Redszone would have you to believe.
    Since the ASB, Bruce has that .900+ OPS that some of think he should/could be putting up.
    "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it."

    http://dalmady.blogspot.com

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #47
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga.
    Posts
    10,592

    Re: 2012 NL MVP

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    You are awfully sure of yourself.
    In the past 15 years, of 30 players that have won the award, only 3 players won on teams that won less than 90 games. Only one of those (A-Rod in 2003) was on a team that won fewer than 85 games.

    So do I feel pretty confident that players on teams pacing for 77 and 79 wins respectively, one of whom tested positive for synthetic testosterone, will not win the award? Yes, I am fairly confident about that. There's a lot of empirical evidence that suggests it's highly unlikely.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  4. #48
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    14,992

    Re: 2012 NL MVP

    Quote Originally Posted by oneupper View Post
    Since the ASB, Bruce has that .900+ OPS that some of think he should/could be putting up.
    With Votto out and everybody else being RH, I wonder if Bruce is getting a bump from the other teams loading up with RHP.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  5. #49
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    8,849

    Re: 2012 NL MVP

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    In the past 15 years, of 30 players that have won the award, only 3 players won on teams that won less than 90 games. Only one of those (A-Rod in 2003) was on a team that won fewer than 85 games.

    So do I feel pretty confident that players on teams pacing for 77 and 79 wins respectively, one of whom tested positive for synthetic testosterone, will not win the award? Yes, I am fairly confident about that. There's a lot of empirical evidence that suggests it's highly unlikely.
    And up until recently, King Felix would've never won the CY Young with his sub .500 on a losing team. Times change.

  6. #50
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga.
    Posts
    10,592

    Re: 2012 NL MVP

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    And up until recently, King Felix would've never won the CY Young with his sub .500 on a losing team. Times change.
    Once in a blue moon, a tornado touches down in Washington state too. Doesn't mean residents should start building storm shelters.

    Nothing here has changed. Voters still prefer, and always have, players on teams with winning records -- especially ones that haven't been shown to be on PEDs.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  7. #51
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    8,849

    Re: 2012 NL MVP

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    Once in a blue moon, a tornado touches down in Washington state too. Doesn't mean residents should start building storm shelters.

    Nothing here has changed. Voters still prefer, and always have, players on teams with winning records -- especially ones that haven't been shown to be on PEDs.
    Again, awfully sure of yourself, despite a good recent example pointing to the contrary of your analysis.

  8. #52
    Member Wonderful Monds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    2,694

    Re: 2012 NL MVP

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    And up until recently, King Felix would've never won the CY Young with his sub .500 on a losing team. Times change.
    Maybe not with the W-L record, but the Cy Young hasn't really favored players on relevant teams like the MVP award. Yeah he didn't have a lot of wins, but voters seem to realize they don't really matter.

    The perception of what an MVP means has not changed to voters though. I think Brutus displayed that pretty conclusively and is right in his confidence that it's not likely to change either.
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.

  9. #53
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    8,849

    Re: 2012 NL MVP

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds View Post
    Maybe not with the W-L record, but the Cy Young hasn't really favored players on relevant teams like the MVP award. Yeah he didn't have a lot of wins, but voters seem to realize they don't really matter.

    The perception of what an MVP means has not changed to voters though. I think Brutus displayed that pretty conclusively and is right in his confidence that it's not likely to change either.
    Your point misses the broader point. With the exclusion of a few select relievers, there has never been a Cy Young award winner with a wins-loss record/percentage even in the neighborhood of King Felix. Ever. So it's not so much about the Cy Young winner coming from a lousy team, it's the fact that a winner was chosen without the wins/losses having anything to do with the pick. It was unprecedented and that stat was always a factor up until then it sure appeared.

    Things can easily change. No one would've predicted Felix actually was going to win it until he did.

  10. #54
    Member Wonderful Monds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    2,694

    Re: 2012 NL MVP

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    Your point misses the broader point. With the exclusion of a few select relievers, there has never been a Cy Young award winner with a wins-loss record/percentage even in the neighborhood of King Felix. Ever. So it's not so much about the Cy Young winner coming from a lousy team, it's the fact that a winner was chosen without the wins/losses having anything to do with the pick. It was unprecedented and that stat was always a factor up until then it sure appeared.

    Things can easily change. No one would've predicted Felix actually was going to win it until he did.
    No I get the point, I'm just saying its not really important. I think many people thought Hernandez could win the award because there was a recent enlightenment on the unimportance of pitcher W/L. That's not going to happen with the MVP coming from contenders, because that's just the nature of the award. It's basically almost part of the criteria.
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.

  11. #55
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga.
    Posts
    10,592

    Re: 2012 NL MVP

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    Again, awfully sure of yourself, despite a good recent example pointing to the contrary of your analysis.
    A recent example you pointed wasn't even the same award we're discussing, and even if it were, some sound advice in probability: the outliers are outliers for a reason.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  12. #56
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    8,849

    Re: 2012 NL MVP

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    A recent example you pointed wasn't even the same award we're discussing, and even if it were, some sound advice in probability: the outliers are outliers for a reason.
    Are the voters who vote for the MVP and the Cy Young different?

  13. #57
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    16,314

    Re: 2012 NL MVP

    The difference btw Cy Young and MVP is that Cy Young has not been as strongly linked to team performance as MVP has been historically.

  14. #58
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga.
    Posts
    10,592

    Re: 2012 NL MVP

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    Are the voters who vote for the MVP and the Cy Young different?
    Like I said, Washington state has a tornado once in a while, but do you think it's a worthwhile investment to spend thousands on a storm shelter because of the one-in-a-million chance a tornado might touch down on your home? Sometimes things happen that don't happen often, but they're not suddenly a signal they'll happen more often.
    Last edited by Brutus; 09-04-2012 at 07:44 AM.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  15. #59
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Posts
    21,308

    Re: 2012 NL MVP

    I don't think Bruce has a chance of MVP (although Bruce has had a nice season overall)

    McCuthson has faded a bit recently, but his numbers still are vastly superior to Bruces' numbers.

    If I had to pick a Reds' MVP, and limit it to position players, I'd pick Ludwick.
    Ludwick was the main force that carried the team on that monster win streak that locked up first place. Bruce helped keep the team afloat in April (when Ludwick was MIA), and has helped them stay in first place in August, but I give Ludwick the nod for leading the dominating streak that got us to 1st place.

    Ludwick has an edge on season OPS too.

    Again, not a bashing Bruce post in any way. Bruce has been great this year, especially in Aug/April..
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  16. #60
    Bunn-O-matic max venable's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Sugarcreek, Ohio
    Posts
    2,745

    Re: 2012 NL MVP

    Bruce is red-hot right now. Maybe it's happening! Seriously...I know it's mostly wishful thinking but if he stays hot and hit's .280, could he not win it by default?
    For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism.


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25