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Thread: 2012 NL MVP

  1. #61
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    Re: 2012 NL MVP

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    Like I said, Washington state has a tornado once in a while, but do you think it's a worthwhile investment to spend thousands on a storm shelter because of the one-in-a-million chance a tornado might touch down on your home? Sometimes things happen that don't happen often, but they're not suddenly a signal they'll happen more often.
    After that tornado hits once and does a lot of damage, absolutely.

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  3. #62
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 NL MVP

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    After that tornado hits once and does a lot of damage, absolutely.
    So you'd purchase flood insurance in the desert for the minute chance of a repeat of the 200-year flood?

    Seems like a very unwise expenditure myself. I guess probability isn't your cup of tea.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  4. #63
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    Re: 2012 NL MVP

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds View Post
    lmao
    Current OPS:
    Bruce .894
    Ludwick .892

    lmao!
    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Let's face it, you mis-hit the bun with the mustard squirter, no one will really care.

  5. #64
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    Re: 2012 NL MVP

    Bruce is 2nd in HRs, 2nd in RBI, 1st in XBH, 9th in OPS, 4th in SLG... Say he finishes the season at .280/.355/.570 with 37 HRs and 110 RBI. Isn't that worthy of MVP discussion? I realize he has flaws but I wonder if we Reds fans think his flaws are bigger because we watch him every night and have a Joey Votto to compare him to... I tend to think the fact that we watch nearly every plate appearance can lead to over exposure and frustration towards certain guys.
    I know a lot of people are talking about his on-base percentage (.308 in 2008), but I like to think more in terms of him his in-scoring position percentage. - Our Beloved Manager

  6. #65
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 NL MVP

    Quote Originally Posted by Nasty_Boy View Post
    Bruce is 2nd in HRs, 2nd in RBI, 1st in XBH, 9th in OPS, 4th in SLG... Say he finishes the season at .280/.355/.570 with 37 HRs and 110 RBI. Isn't that worthy of MVP discussion? I realize he has flaws but I wonder if we Reds fans think his flaws are bigger because we watch him every night and have a Joey Votto to compare him to... I tend to think the fact that we watch nearly every plate appearance can lead to over exposure and frustration towards certain guys.
    I think most of us who follow the Reds from day to day can pretty much agree that Bruce doesn't warrant #1 votes for MVP. That said, if he winds up with a impressive line at season's end...national voters may just give him some love as they look to the Reds to see who is deserving. Can't imagine him winning it under any circumstance though to be honest.

  7. #66
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    Re: 2012 NL MVP

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    I think most of us who follow the Reds from day to day can pretty much agree that Bruce doesn't warrant #1 votes for MVP. That said, if he winds up with a impressive line at season's end...national voters may just give him some love as they look to the Reds to see who is deserving. Can't imagine him winning it under any circumstance though to be honest.
    I can't either, but I will say I've underestimated Bruce. I didn't imagine Rollins or Pedroia could win the MVP when they did, but if he puts up those numbers, who knows.
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
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    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.

  8. #67
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    Re: 2012 NL MVP

    If Bruce leads the NL in RBI's he absolutely has a chance to win the MVP.

    I bet the league leader in RBI's wins the MVP more often than any other statiusitcal leader.

    Especially when many of the hitters around Bruce in RBI's are not on contenders.

  9. #68
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    Re: 2012 NL MVP

    If Bruce finishes like the King he has been the past 25 games (and early in the season), McCutchen misses the playoffs, he's absolutely going to get consideration for NL MVP.

    Braun will not get votes despite the numbers on a count of what happened last season.

    Others in the conversation would be David Wright (won't get it), Yadier Molina, and Buster Posey.
    2009 Attendance Record: 3-5 2010 Attendance Record: 2-9
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  10. #69
    Public Enemy #1 Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 NL MVP


    Bruce for MVP
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

  11. #70
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    Re: 2012 NL MVP

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    I think most of us who follow the Reds from day to day can pretty much agree that Bruce doesn't warrant #1 votes for MVP. That said, if he winds up with a impressive line at season's end...national voters may just give him some love as they look to the Reds to see who is deserving. Can't imagine him winning it under any circumstance though to be honest.
    I agree with that... I just wonder if watching on a daily basis doesn't make his warts seem bigger than what they really are. I do think Bruce deserves MVP votes, but I don't believe he's the MVP. His funks are ugly but not many guys get as hot as him, and it normally happens a few times a year. As we've seen with many players, these funks happen but the good rebound and adjust. Bruce has a chance to set career highs in most every offensive category like he's done each year in the bigs. It begs the question again... Is Bruce still improving or is he at his peak? Seems to me that he's still improving.
    I know a lot of people are talking about his on-base percentage (.308 in 2008), but I like to think more in terms of him his in-scoring position percentage. - Our Beloved Manager

  12. #71
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    Re: 2012 NL MVP

    It's not an issue of seeing him on a daily basis making us not appreciate who he is IMO.

    We know more than anyone exactly who he is.

    There are stretches when he produces like a replacement player. Extended stretches.

    There are stretches when he produces at a Ruthian clip. Extended stretches. His seasons are combinations of these peaks and valleys of extremes. The question is--and it's been discussed here before--does it really matter if the production is there at the end? I don't know where I sit there. Bottom line is that he's very much a part of this MVP conversation in the NL right now and he has a chance to grab this thing.
    2009 Attendance Record: 3-5 2010 Attendance Record: 2-9
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  13. #72
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    Re: 2012 NL MVP

    I think .275 batting average and 40 homers are the benchmarks Bruce has to reach to have a good shot at MVP. Winning team, star player being injured, and torrid last month would be a hard story to ignore come voting time.

  14. #73
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    Re: 2012 NL MVP

    I don't know if we know who is yet or not... Every time there is a cold streak, a thread gets started about Bruce and his "lack of production." When honestly the question is "when" not "if" when it comes to his production... I can't help but think that as he matures that his pitch recognition will continue to improve because he clearly has all the physical tools. This guy is 25 freaking years old and putting up some very big numbers... It seems like he's been around since 'Nam! I can't help but think he still has bigger years in his future.

    The other thing I find interesting... No matter how bad he's going, no matter how ugly he's looked during a certain stretch, other teams fear him and managers still run out their top LOOGY against him despite the fact he leads LH hitters in HRs against LHP. I realize most top players get this treatment, but it must be nice for some to not have the tough matchup played against you on a nightly basis.
    I know a lot of people are talking about his on-base percentage (.308 in 2008), but I like to think more in terms of him his in-scoring position percentage. - Our Beloved Manager

  15. #74
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    Re: 2012 NL MVP

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    So you'd purchase flood insurance in the desert for the minute chance of a repeat of the 200-year flood?

    Seems like a very unwise expenditure myself. I guess probability isn't your cup of tea.
    Is changing the goal posts your cup of tea? First it was a shelter, now it's insurance too. Seems like you're adding expenditures here, if you will.

    If you want to refuse to acknowledge that the voters may be changing their thinking some, then that's your choice. I happen to think they are slowly coming around not only on the Cy Young, but the MVP as well. We'll see what happens.

  16. #75
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    Re: 2012 NL MVP

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    Is changing the goal posts your cup of tea? First it was a shelter, now it's insurance too. Seems like you're adding expenditures here, if you will.

    If you want to refuse to acknowledge that the voters may be changing their thinking some, then that's your choice. I happen to think they are slowly coming around not only on the Cy Young, but the MVP as well. We'll see what happens.
    I'm not changing goal posts. I'm changing analogies. I have remained completely constant in my point: pointing out an isolated example is not a trend. You have absolutely no evidence of the criteria changing one bit. You pointed out a single player in 2010 winning a separate award. Not only is that an outlier, but it's an outlier for a completely different award. Yet it's me changing the goal posts? Stick to the same award. You're grasping at straws using one example from 2010 for a completely different award. I am beginning to wonder if you're even familiar with the term outlier.

    Did you happen to catch Dave Cameron's chat yesterday? He said the same thing... Braun might not even finish in the top 10 of the award. Not only do voters not like giving the award to players on bad teams but Braun's situation gives them extra incentive not to vote for him.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda


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