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Thread: Tony Cingrani: Thoughts?

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    Member Superdude's Avatar
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    Tony Cingrani: Thoughts?

    I think we need some thread turnover on the ORG, so I figured I would spur some discussion on our shiny new lefthander. Obviously a fine debut statistically, but what did you all think of him? Delivery, stuff, future role?

    His deceptiveness and pinpoint command were all on display, but as reported, the secondary stuff was underwhelming IMO. It doesn't appear to me that he has the raw stuff to be all that special in the bullpen, but his size, aggressive mentality, and command would play extremely well as a starter if his offspeed stuff develops a bit. Thoughts?

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    Re: Tony Cingrani: Thoughts?

    Like Jim/Chris were saying on TV during the game, I really think this kid is impressive. He has a nice, simple, yet misleading delivery. Even the tater he gave up was on a decent pitch outside of the strike zone. I think that was just a nice piece of hitting on a good pitch. I like that he didnt give up any BB's, nor did he seem rattled after serving up the long-ball. I always thoroughly enjoy seeing players' MLB debuts, regardless of their pedigree. That said, Cingrani at least impressed these two eyeballs.

    -Matt

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    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Tony Cingrani: Thoughts?

    A real nice debut, can definitely see him in the rotation sooner than later.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

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    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Tony Cingrani: Thoughts?

    Thanks for the new thread. Much needed IMO.

    Some data:

    Cingrani went 3 innings, didn't walk anyone, struck out 5 and gave up one run on a HR to Tyler Greene (a RH Hitter). He threw 50 pitches, 34 for strikes. 45 of his 50 pitches were four seam fastballs with 1 two seamer, he threw 1 slider and 3 change-ups with one of the change-ups being the HR pitch. His fastball was generally 90 to 92 with one at 94 and a couple at 93 both thrown in his first inning of work. He threw 8 fastballs below 90 MPH with the slowest at 86. His changes were 85, 85 and 86 MHP with one of the 85s going for the HR. His slider was 79 MPH and was called a ball.

    I came away a bit underwhelmed honestly. Based on his minor league numbers I expected "nastier" stuff. After his first inning the below 90 MH FBs started showing up and the 93s and 94s disappeared. His change didn't have much change from his FB speed and doesn't seem like a good pitch at the moment. One resulted in a GO, one a swinging strike and the other a HR. I can't comment on movement much, but based on his velocities, I don't think he'll be successful in any role once the league gets a read on him. In general I agree his best chance may be as a mid-rotation starter if he can get the change and slider working. I'd say he needs more time developping and wonder why Walt felt compelled to add him to the 40 man roster before he needed to. I guess being a lefty has lots of benefits for a pitcher (or a hitter for that matter).
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

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    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Tony Cingrani: Thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Thanks for the new thread. Much needed IMO.

    Some data:

    Cingrani went 3 innings, didn't walk anyone, struck out 5 and gave up one run on a HR to Tyler Greene (a RH Hitter). He threw 50 pitches, 34 for strikes. 46 of his 50 pitches were four seem fastballs, he threw 1 slider and 3 change-ups with one of the change-ups being the HR pitch. His fastball was generally 90 to 92 with one at 94 and a couple at 93 both thrown in his first inning of work. He threw 8 fastballs below 90 MPH with the slowest at 86. His changes were 85, 85 and 86 MHP with one of the 85s going for the HR. His slider was 79 MPH and was called a ball.

    I came away a bit underwhelmed honestly. Based on his minor league numbers I expected "nastier" stuff. After his first inning the below 90 MH FBs started showing up and the 93s and 94s disappeared. His change didn't have much change from his FB speed and doesn't seem like a good pitch at the moment. One resulted in a GO, one a swinging strike and the other a HR. I can't comment on movement much, but based on his velocities, I don't think he'll be successful in any role once the league gets a read on him. In general I agree his best chance may be as a mid-rotation starter if he can get the change and slider working. I'd say he needs more time developping and wonder why Walt felt compelled to add him to the 40 man roster before he needed to. I guess being a lefty has lots of benefits for a pitcher (or a hitter for that matter).
    It's hard to imagine Cingrani was out there in his major league debut calling his own pitches. It was Hanigan and the coaching staff calling all the fastballs
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

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    Member Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    Re: Tony Cingrani: Thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Thanks for the new thread. Much needed IMO.

    Some data:

    Cingrani went 3 innings, didn't walk anyone, struck out 5 and gave up one run on a HR to Tyler Greene (a RH Hitter). He threw 50 pitches, 34 for strikes. 45 of his 50 pitches were four seam fastballs with 1 two seamer, he threw 1 slider and 3 change-ups with one of the change-ups being the HR pitch. His fastball was generally 90 to 92 with one at 94 and a couple at 93 both thrown in his first inning of work. He threw 8 fastballs below 90 MPH with the slowest at 86. His changes were 85, 85 and 86 MHP with one of the 85s going for the HR. His slider was 79 MPH and was called a ball.

    I came away a bit underwhelmed honestly. Based on his minor league numbers I expected "nastier" stuff. After his first inning the below 90 MH FBs started showing up and the 93s and 94s disappeared. His change didn't have much change from his FB speed and doesn't seem like a good pitch at the moment. One resulted in a GO, one a swinging strike and the other a HR. I can't comment on movement much, but based on his velocities, I don't think he'll be successful in any role once the league gets a read on him. In general I agree his best chance may be as a mid-rotation starter if he can get the change and slider working. I'd say he needs more time developping and wonder why Walt felt compelled to add him to the 40 man roster before he needed to. I guess being a lefty has lots of benefits for a pitcher (or a hitter for that matter).
    Ouch. Would you want to see him traded then while his value is at its peak?
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    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Tony Cingrani: Thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    It's hard to imagine Cingrani was out there in his major league debut calling his own pitches. It was Hanigan and the coaching staff calling all the fastballs
    Sure, but his difference in velocity between his FB and change isn't good and his rep is that he doesn't have much in secondary stuff. I was actually surprised he threw a slider. I still think he can be good, he's just not ready IMO.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

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    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Tony Cingrani: Thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds View Post
    Ouch. Would you want to see him traded then while his value is at its peak?
    Nope. I just think he needs at least another season in the minors working on secondary stuff. I don't think we should start penciling him into the Reds staff for 2013. Before today, I actually thought that might be an option.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

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    Re: Tony Cingrani: Thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Nope. I just think he needs at least another season in the minors working on secondary stuff. I don't think we should start penciling him into the Reds staff for 2013. Before today, I actually thought that might be an option.
    I kind of agree, and based on Browning's comments and some in the minor league forum who've watched Cingrani, it sounds like today wasn't much of an anomaly as far as pitch selection. As reluctant as he may be, I would send him down next season and tell him to heavily mix in off speed pitches regardless of results. Not only is he uncomfortable throwing them, the pitches themselves just don't seem major league caliber. I still love the foundation he has as a big lefty with an above average arm and top shelf command.

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    Pitching is the thing WVRedsFan's Avatar
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    Re: Tony Cingrani: Thoughts?

    One outing is a little early to pass judgment.
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    Re: Tony Cingrani: Thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRedsFan View Post
    One outing is a little early to pass judgment.
    Bingo.

    On a side note, he was born in New Lenox, IL, a Chicago suburb that I once lived in back in the day. I wish him well.

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    Re: Tony Cingrani: Thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRedsFan View Post
    One outing is a little early to pass judgment.
    Nah. Trade him now before he's found out.
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    Re: Tony Cingrani: Thoughts?

    Wow, tough crowd around here...

    It's a cup of coffee. He'll be in the minors next year. Good lefty prospect with a future

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    Re: Tony Cingrani: Thoughts?

    Nobody knows what this kid can do or what he will do until he's been out there a few times and racked up some innings.Yes he looked good but it was the Astro's,however you had to like the command.
    "Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser."

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    Re: Tony Cingrani: Thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by vic715 View Post
    Nobody knows what this kid can do or what he will do until he's been out there a few times and racked up some innings.Yes he looked good but it was the Astro's,however you had to like the command.
    I wanna see how his fastball plays against some better hitters. mth mentioned the gun readings being fairly pedestrian, but the Astros couldn't seem to touch his fastball. It'll be interesting to see if he is truly that deceptive or the Astros are just bad at hitting baseballs.


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