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Thread: NFL Officiating

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    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    NFL Officiating

    OK, we all know the situation in the NFL and officiating is an inexact science but I'm going to focus my comment on the Seahawk-Cardinal game. For those of you who missed it, here's the backround on it:

    (CBS/AP) GLENDALE, Ariz. - Replacement officials in Sunday's game between Arizona and Seattle made a mistake by awarding the Seahawks an extra timeout in the closing seconds.


    Seahawks coach Pete Carroll called timeout with 30 seconds left, but the officials had announced two plays earlier Seattle used its last one when receiver Doug Baldwin was injured.


    After huddling, then meeting with two different people from the sideline, the officials determined the previous stoppage had been on an incomplete pass, so the Seahawks were not charged with a timeout.


    Under NFL rules, teams are required to use a timeout for an injured player in the final two minutes, whether the clock is running or not.


    The mistake didn't end up having an impact on the game; Seattle failed to score on four plays inside Arizona's 6-yard line as the Cardinals held on for a 20-16 win.


    "It was my error," referee Bruce Hermansen said in a statement. "We gave them (Seattle) the additional timeout because of the incomplete pass stopping the clock before the injury occurred. When in effect, the clock has no bearing on the play at all, whether it's stopped or running, we should not have given them the additional timeout."


    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-400_162-...extra-timeout/

    Now I saw it live and let me re-cap it. They granted a timeout after Seattle ran the ball up the middle on 1st and goal from about 8 yd line with 0:30 left. As the article states, they already had announced that Seattle was out of TOs. Then they huddled and talked extensively with "the booth" as the Cardinals were yelling that the 'Hawks were out of TOs. There was a saignificant delay. Finally the head ref announces that Seattle was awarded a TO here because they incorrectly ruled earlier that they be charged with an injury TO because that play was on an incomplete pass.

    So my question is this: after consulting with people "upstairs" who supposedly had access to a rulebook, how did they get this call wrong? As the article above states the ref admitted after the game that he was wrong and the injury TO should have been charged regardless of whether the clock was stopped or not.

    I get that bad judgements are made in the heat of the moment and split second decisions sometimes need to be made but that's not what happened here. In this case the refs had time to consult and come to a sound decision. Given all that, they still blew it which leads to my question:

    Why should this ref be brought back for any more NFL games? He should be gone and sent back to do college div 2, 3 or wherever he came from. This sort of egregious error is inexcusable

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  3. #2
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: NFL Officiating

    They screwed up. They got the call wrong and when they huddled for the second time it really didn't matter. Their huddling in essence was granting Seattle a TO regardless. At least the head Ref admitted his mistake unlike the regular officials.

    I watched the SF GB game and there were quite a few penalties called. You would see the flag, hear the crowd boo, but then on replay saw the penalty. The games I saw were no worse than the bad officiating crews around today. The thing with the replacement refs is they are going to get better and better the more games they do. The NFL officials who are holding out were hoping for a bunch of poor officiated games which didn't happen.

    Can you name one week with the regular refs didn't miss a controversial call?

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    Re: NFL Officiating

    The NFL is paying the replacement refs about 1/3 of what the regular refs make. You get what you pay for.

    All things considered I thought they did a decent job. There will be bad calls and mistakes, but it coulda been a lot worse. Like Bucksfan2 said, I think they'll keep getting better the more games they do.

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    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: NFL Officiating

    Quote Originally Posted by Stray View Post
    The NFL is paying the replacement refs about 1/3 of what the regular refs make. You get what you pay for.

    All things considered I thought they did a decent job. There will be bad calls and mistakes, but it coulda been a lot worse. Like Bucksfan2 said, I think they'll keep getting better the more games they do.
    I agree, all things considered they did OK which is why I'm fine with bringing most of them back next week but this one has to go. If you can't get the rule right after taking a long time to discuss it with others, you're gone. That's the very least we can expect from these officials. The fact that it didn't impact who won the game is just dumb luck

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    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: NFL Officiating

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    They screwed up. They got the call wrong and when they huddled for the second time it really didn't matter. Their huddling in essence was granting Seattle a TO regardless. At least the head Ref admitted his mistake unlike the regular officials.

    I watched the SF GB game and there were quite a few penalties called. You would see the flag, hear the crowd boo, but then on replay saw the penalty. The games I saw were no worse than the bad officiating crews around today. The thing with the replacement refs is they are going to get better and better the more games they do. The NFL officials who are holding out were hoping for a bunch of poor officiated games which didn't happen.

    Can you name one week with the regular refs didn't miss a controversial call?
    Refs miss controversial calls all the time but they rarely if ever don't know the rules. Especially after delaying the game in order to get it right...and they still screwed it up. No, sorry. You're gone in my book. This is the NFL and we have higher standards than that. If the NFL tolerates this then they're telling the world that they'll tolerate anything from these guys and that's not the signal you want to send

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    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: NFL Officiating

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    Refs miss controversial calls all the time but they rarely if ever don't know the rules. Especially after delaying the game in order to get it right...and they still screwed it up. No, sorry. You're gone in my book. This is the NFL and we have higher standards than that. If the NFL tolerates this then they're telling the world that they'll tolerate anything from these guys and that's not the signal you want to send
    I can see where they got the rule wrong. It was an incomplete pass so the clock was already stopped. The Seahawks who were behind gained no advantage for the player going down. Should the officials have known that rule, yes. But to assume that the regular officials never make mistakes is absurd. Ask Mike Carey about tackling someone too hard! What about the time Ed Hochuli massively screwed up a call a few years ago?

    In the Green Bay SF game there was a blown call on the punt return for a TD. The one flag that was picked up looked like the right decision. However the refs missed a pretty blatant block in the back that sprung the play. I remember a game last year against the Steelers when a blatant block in the back was missed on a PR that blew the game open.

    The replacements refs are by no means great but to act like the regular officials never blow calls is incorrect.

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    A Little to the Left Redsfaithful's Avatar
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    Re: NFL Officiating

    The bad thing is it's not like this is the second best groups of refs. The guys working NCAA games and anyone who has hopes of ever moving up to the NFL isn't going to take a chance as a scab.

    These are guys from high school football, lingerie league, etc.
    We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
    --Oscar Wilde

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    Re: NFL Officiating

    Yet....they did a pretty good job.

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    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: NFL Officiating

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    I can see where they got the rule wrong. It was an incomplete pass so the clock was already stopped. The Seahawks who were behind gained no advantage for the player going down. Should the officials have known that rule, yes. But to assume that the regular officials never make mistakes is absurd. Ask Mike Carey about tackling someone too hard! What about the time Ed Hochuli massively screwed up a call a few years ago?

    In the Green Bay SF game there was a blown call on the punt return for a TD. The one flag that was picked up looked like the right decision. However the refs missed a pretty blatant block in the back that sprung the play. I remember a game last year against the Steelers when a blatant block in the back was missed on a PR that blew the game open.

    The replacements refs are by no means great but to act like the regular officials never blow calls is incorrect.
    Everyone blows calls but the examples you used were bad calls based on judgement or they weren't seen. In Mike Carey's judgement Justin Smith's tackle was "roughing". I disagree with him but I'm sure he can quote me word for word what the roughing rule is in the rulebook. In the GB-SF game yesterday, I don't know what the official's excuse is but I doubt they'll say that a blatant block in the back is not against the rules. The difference here is judgement vs ignorance of the rulebook. Let's take it to baseball since we're all baseball fans here. In MLB, they draw a distinction between judgement and rulebook interpretations. You can protest a game if the ump doesn't know the rules:
    4.19
    PROTESTING GAMES.
    Each league shall adopt rules governing procedure for protesting a game, when a manager claims that an umpire’s decision is in violation of these rules. No protest shall ever be permitted on judgment decisions
    http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/official_info...tart_end_4.jsp

    It's extremely rare that refs don't know the rules especially after being given the opportunity to consult with others and research their decision. Suffice to say you'll have to work Google a bit harder in order to find examples of that or just admit that such an error is quite rare

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    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: NFL Officiating

    Quote Originally Posted by JaxRed View Post
    Yet....they did a pretty good job.
    Taken on the whole, perhaps, but I'm just suggesting that one go bye-bye. In the big picture I'm fine with the NFL starving the regular ones for awhile

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    A Little to the Left Redsfaithful's Avatar
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    Re: NFL Officiating

    Quote Originally Posted by JaxRed View Post
    Yet....they did a pretty good job.
    Kind of? Giving a team an extra timeout is pretty amateur. The constant huddling up for tough calls made the games feel longer, but that could just be my perception.
    We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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    Administrator Boss-Hog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redsfaithful View Post
    Kind of? Giving a team an extra timeout is pretty amateur. The constant huddling up for tough calls made the games feel longer, but that could just be my perception.
    I thought the same thing.

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    Maple SERP savafan's Avatar
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    Re: NFL Officiating

    Though I wasn't happy with the end score result, I thought the refs in the Philadelphia vs. Cleveland match-up did a pretty good job of calling a fair game.
    My dad got to enjoy 3 Reds World Championships by the time he was my age. So far, I've only gotten to enjoy one. Step it up Redlegs!

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    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: NFL Officiating

    I've seen worse calls. I'll always remember the year before the instituted instant replay where the head official ruled that Vinny Testaverde's helmet crossing the goal line counted as a touchdown even if the ball didn't get in. Oh and the time when they botched the coin toss.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

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    Re: NFL Officiating

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    Why should this ref be brought back for any more NFL games? He should be gone and sent back to do college div 2, 3 or wherever he came from. This sort of egregious error is inexcusable
    There was an NFL employee upstairs who didn't correct them either, so it's not just the replacement refs who messed up. It was a bad mistake, but it happened with the regular refs in 2009 too, so it's not unique to the replacement officials. Personally, I think the whole issue was overblown and that the refs did really well outside of that moment in the Arizona game.


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