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Thread: Brantley's Rant Against Sabermetrics

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    Brantley's Rant Against Sabermetrics

    Did anyone hear that tonight on the radio broadcast? I know this is a sabermetrics-heavy board, but I loved it! You go, Jeff!

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    Member Wheelhouse's Avatar
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    Re: Brantley's Rant Against Sabermetrics

    Love the Cowboy! He speaks it like it is!
    "Don't trust any statistics you did not fake yourself."--Winston Churchill

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    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Brantley's Rant Against Sabermetrics

    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

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    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Brantley's Rant Against Sabermetrics

    Didn't hear it, but most rants against sabermetrics are tear-downs of straw men rather than legitimate critiques.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Bread Gloves Razor Shines's Avatar
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    Re: Brantley's Rant Against Sabermetrics

    Personally I think all stats are worthless. They just shouldn't be kept. Why do I need some nerd with a calculator to tell me Joey Votto's Batting Average is? I can tell if I guy can hit just by watching.

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    Moderator The Operator's Avatar
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    Re: Brantley's Rant Against Sabermetrics

    Sabremetrics aren't the end-all be-all that some make them out to be, but it's silly to discount them altogether.

    It seems to me when people go on those over the top rants against them, it's generally because they either don't or aren't capable of understanding them.
    Quote Originally Posted by BCubb2003 View Post
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    Pitching is the thing WVRedsFan's Avatar
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    Re: Brantley's Rant Against Sabermetrics

    Quote Originally Posted by The Operator View Post
    Sabremetrics aren't the end-all be-all that some make them out to be, but it's silly to discount them altogether.

    It seems to me when people go on those over the top rants against them, it's generally because they either don't or aren't capable of understanding them.
    Or don't want to. Many fans like to watch baseball and not analyze it so much. I'm between the two extremes, but I admit it's annoying when you make a statement based on observation and one of the stat geeks come back with all kinds of stats to tell you that what you just saw was bad luck or just plain luck. No fun.
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    Moderator The Operator's Avatar
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    Re: Brantley's Rant Against Sabermetrics

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRedsFan View Post
    Or don't want to. Many fans like to watch baseball and not analyze it so much. I'm between the two extremes, but I admit it's annoying when you make a statement based on observation and one of the stat geeks come back with all kinds of stats to tell you that what you just saw was bad luck or just plain luck. No fun.
    True. I've always been a guy who thinks both methods have their merit.

    What I don't understand is why so many people are so adamant about being only on one side of the argument. Why can't they embrace both?
    Quote Originally Posted by BCubb2003 View Post
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    Charlie Brown All-Star IslandRed's Avatar
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    Re: Brantley's Rant Against Sabermetrics

    Quote Originally Posted by The Operator View Post
    Sabremetrics aren't the end-all be-all that some make them out to be, but it's silly to discount them altogether.

    It seems to me when people go on those over the top rants against them, it's generally because they either don't or aren't capable of understanding them.
    When delivered by baseball lifers like Brantley, I'd bet the rants are often a defensive reflex to something they've heard or read -- something that usually translates to "you and the people in the game you admire don't know (bleep) about baseball." Which doesn't mean the offending opinion is necessarily wrong, mind you, but I can understand the reaction.
    Not all who wander are lost

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    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: Brantley's Rant Against Sabermetrics

    When I'm watching baseball, I don't think about sabermetrics at all. Ever.

    But during the downtime between games, my mind needs something baseball-related to occupy itself. That's when sabermetrics come in handy.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

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    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Brantley's Rant Against Sabermetrics

    Quote Originally Posted by The Operator View Post
    Sabremetrics aren't the end-all be-all that some make them out to be, but it's silly to discount them altogether.

    It seems to me when people go on those over the top rants against them, it's generally because they either don't or aren't capable of understanding them.
    There's probably some extremes to both the rants and (some) saber users. Sabermetric stats are very useful in context. Unfortunately there are also some that use them religiously and make matter-of-fact conclusions from them. That is probably the fringe that also creates stereotyping of all sabermetric stats.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Brantley's Rant Against Sabermetrics

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool View Post
    When I'm watching baseball, I don't think about sabermetrics at all. Ever.

    But during the downtime between games, my mind needs something baseball-related to occupy itself. That's when sabermetrics come in handy.
    This is how I am. During the game, I think there are traditional baseball fundamentals and scouting that have a place for discussion. I think sabermetrics shouldn't drastically dictate the game as much as quantify what's happened.

    I truly don't think sabermetrics have changed the game too much, nor should they. They've merely led to better quantification of things.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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    Re: Brantley's Rant Against Sabermetrics

    He had 3 points.

    1) Defensive sabermetrics don't capture plays like the one that set him off on his rant -- BP covering first and getting a flip from Votto on a ball hit to the outfield, tagging a guy between his legs. Numbers measure the put-out, but not the instincts to be in the right place, or the athleticism to make the tag.

    2) Defensive sabermetrics would put Alfonso Soriano first at his position (according to Jeff), which is absolutely ludicrous (again according to Jeff).

    3) Jeff himself would have never made it out of the minors under a pure numbers analysis...so maybe this is personal?

    Anyway, I completely agree with him about some of the most important parts of the game not being measurable by numbers.

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    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: Brantley's Rant Against Sabermetrics

    At 47 years old, I never needed Sabermetrics to tell me who the good/great players were in the 70's, 80's, 90's and now.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

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    Passion for the game Team Clark's Avatar
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    Re: Brantley's Rant Against Sabermetrics

    I like everyone . "how we lookin'?"
    It's absolutely pathetic that people can't have an opinion from actually watching games and supplementing that with stats. If you voice an opinion that doesn't fit into a black/white box you will get completely misrepresented and basically called a tobacco chewing traditionalist...
    Cedric 3/24/08


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