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Thread: AL mvp....

  1. #436
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: AL mvp....

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool View Post
    That should be understood, though. We should all be mentally adding that phrase before we read anything posted on RZ, or the internet in general.
    In theory, yes. But those who write statements with the intent to state something as fact has ruined it for those who wish to bring a respectful point of view. I would argue it is best practice to preface a statement with a qualifier that shows it is opinion. (If that is one's intention)

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  3. #437
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    Re: AL mvp....

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I know how guys vote, I just think that they are incredibly wrong when they vote in a way that isn't for the player who was the best one in the league.
    Since the criteria for MVP isn't "the player who is the best one in the league" you shouldn't be suprised that that isn't the standard many use in deciding who to vote for.

    Just becaue you think that "the player judged most valuable to his team" equates exactly to "the best player in the league" doesn't make it so. Especially when the majority of voters think otherwise.

  4. #438
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: AL mvp....

    If the name of the award is Most Valuable Player, then I can't understand any rationale that suggests it should be given to anyone who wasn't the best player.

  5. #439
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: AL mvp....

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool View Post
    That should be understood, though. We should all be mentally adding that phrase before we read anything posted on RZ, or the internet in general.
    Pretty much, spot on.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  6. #440
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: AL mvp....

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool View Post
    That should be understood, though. We should all be mentally adding that phrase before we read anything posted on RZ, or the internet in general.
    Well I know that, however I'm unsure the memo was circulated properly

  7. #441
    Member 757690's Avatar
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    Re: AL mvp....

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    The phrase "in my opinion" should be used more on RZ

    It's not that hard
    I disagree, but that's just my opinion
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  8. #442
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    Re: AL mvp....

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    If the name of the award is Most Valuable Player, then I can't understand any rationale that suggests it should be given to anyone who wasn't the best player.
    How about the rationale that it's not called "Best Player".

    Under Rules of Interpretation, if the creators of the award had wanted it to go to the best player, they would have simply said so. They obviously intended something different.

  9. #443
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: AL mvp....

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    How about the rationale that it's not called "Best Player".

    Under Rules of Interpretation, if the creators of the award had wanted it to go to the best player, they would have simply said so. They obviously intended something different.
    I really don't think they did, they just wanted to give it a fancier name.

  10. #444
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    Re: AL mvp....

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I really don't think they did, they just wanted to give it a fancier name.

    Let's summarize;

    (1) They called it something different;

    (2) Under normal interpretation rules, you can assume they meant something different;

    (3) The vast majority of voters have interpreted it in accordance with how it was described, being something different;

    (4) Yet you think the whole world is different?

  11. #445
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: AL mvp....

    I think it's is impossible for someone who is not the best player to be the most valuable. Period.

  12. #446
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: AL mvp....

    Quote Originally Posted by klw View Post
    Verducci's rationale:
    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...#ixzz2Ch3SmWZC



    He does not offer an opinion if we need to monitor Trout next year to make sure his throws in from the outfield do not increase too much from this year's total.
    These kind of arguments are hilarious. Why doesn't he look at the last week of the season. Why doesn't he ask why the Tigers 1.5 games back on August 23rd to begin with. Did the games in June and July have less bearing on who made the playoffs.

    Journalists love narrative. Cabrera was the better story. Case closed.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  13. #447
    Charlie Brown All-Star IslandRed's Avatar
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    Re: AL mvp....

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I think it's is impossible for someone who is not the best player to be the most valuable. Period.
    Value means different things to different people. You're looking at it as an absolute thing; to others, value is a relative term that's very context-dependent. This is why we have arguments over the MVP most years. It's not arguing who's best so much as arguing over what "valuable" means, and good luck convincing anyone else to change their definition.
    Not all who wander are lost

  14. #448
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: AL mvp....

    As an aside, I thought one of the worst MVP votes during the past decade was A-Rod in 2003. He accumulated a bunch of stats for a team that spent the entire season deep in the basement. In fact it was a big second half compiled while his team was totally irrelevant that won him the award. And my reaction to it remains unchanged, so what?

    Yes, he was an excellent player, but he had a pressure-free season. He had a spectacularly unimportant season, one that impacted the back of his baseball card far more than real life.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

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  15. #449
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: AL mvp....

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    As an aside, I thought one of the worst MVP votes during the past decade was A-Rod in 2003. He accumulated a bunch of stats for a team that spent the entire season deep in the basement. In fact it was a big second half compiled while his team was totally irrelevant that won him the award. And my reaction to it remains unchanged, so what?

    Yes, he was an excellent player, but he had a pressure-free season. He had a spectacularly unimportant season, one that impacted the back of his baseball card far more than real life.
    Going back farther, Andre Dawson's 1987 award was pretty much a joke.

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/aw...87.shtml#NLmvp

    At least A-Rod had a dominant WAR. Dawson wasn't even in the top 10.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

  16. #450
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: AL mvp....

    I personally think Williams got a bigger shaft in '42 and maybe even a bigger shaft in '47 than Trout did this year. I'd have voted for Trout but there's more romance in giving it to Cabrera though. Strip all of the romance from baseball and its not as compelling.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner


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