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Thread: Pirates' weird Navy SEALS training doesn't go over well with top prospects

  1. #16
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
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    Re: Pirates' weird Navy SEALS training doesn't go over well with top prospects

    Also, how much bandwidth has been wasted around here by people bemoaning "Baseball groupthink" and wanting people to think outside the box and embrace new ideas?

    To me, this is a big "whatever" -- it seems silly, it may be crazy, but it's 3 days. It sounds more like the players and complainers are just spoiled brats.
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  3. #17
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Pirates' weird Navy SEALS training doesn't go over well with top prospects

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    Also, how much bandwidth has been wasted around here by people bemoaning "Baseball groupthink" and wanting people to think outside the box and embrace new ideas?

    To me, this is a big "whatever" -- it seems silly, it may be crazy, but it's 3 days. It sounds more like the players and complainers are just spoiled brats.
    Million dollars are paid to baseball players, which is a game of flexibility and skill, not hand to hand combat and tire lifting.

    Branch Rickey thought out of the box, he created sliding pits and Dodgertown.

    this is nonsense

  4. #18
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    Re: Pirates' weird Navy SEALS training doesn't go over well with top prospects

    I wonder how bad an idea this would seem like if the Pirates were currently in the playoff hunt.

    I mean, did baseball training reach its zenith at playing pepper?
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

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    Re: Pirates' weird Navy SEALS training doesn't go over well with top prospects

    I wonder how bad an idea this would seem like if the Pirates were currently in the playoff hunt.

    I mean, did baseball training reach its zenith at playing pepper?
    Apples and oranges. The training stuff impacts the long-term -- it's happening in the minor leagues. It seems they were off the rails down there with players questioning what was happening -- not good. The major league team is wholly separate.

    Bottom line -- the GM is responsible for building a strong organization, top to bottom.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  6. #20
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    Re: Pirates' weird Navy SEALS training doesn't go over well with top prospects

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    Apples and oranges. The training stuff impacts the long-term -- it's happening in the minor leagues. It seems they were off the rails down there with players questioning what was happening -- not good. The major league team is wholly separate.

    Bottom line -- the GM is responsible for building a strong organization, top to bottom.
    Yeah but the success of the big league team drives the perception of the organization.

    The players questioning it isn't good, yes. But this might be more a question of leadership and communication than the actual methods.
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

  7. #21
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Pirates' weird Navy SEALS training doesn't go over well with top prospects

    Quote Originally Posted by nate View Post
    I mean, did baseball training reach its zenith at playing pepper?
    From getting blasted with water after 5 a.m. wakeup calls to hand-to-hand combat in which, according to two sources, top prospect Jameson Taillon once suffered a knee injury, the Pirates' insistence on using militaristic exercise has spooked enough players that a number openly complained to minor league staff members this year about the instructional league plans.
    I suppose the water hose exercise could help this on field action.





    Text of email:


    Full text of Kyle Stark email
    September 20th, 2012
    From: Stark, Kyle

    Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 5:22 PM

    Subject: SECOND HALF – OUR WHAT

    So what do we need to get done in the second half?

    Over the last four days, we’ve reconnected with our WHY — turning boys into men so that we can re-bond a city with a baseball team and change the world through baseball. We’ve refocused and clarified our HOW — relentless, systematic and cohesive. All of these discussions have been tied to the ‘one thing’ that we need to move forward in the second half – we’ve trained them up, now we need to help them trust it and transfer it on the field. Which brings us to our WHAT …

    As we talk about turning boys into men and developing them as PROs, this requires a few key characteristics. Those characteristics match our PRO values and are vividly captured by Bernie’s story about Olympic thrower Mac Wilkins and his views on what makes an Olympic champion. Mac explained that gold medal winners live by three golden rules — Dream and be creative like a Hippie. Have the discipline and perseverance of a Boy Scout. Be crazy and take risks like the Hells Angels. …

    1. Dream like a Hippie — PASSION — Elite people have big dreams, are driven by those dreams, and believe that they can achieve them.

    2. Prepare like a Boy Scout — RELENTLESS — Elite people have extreme work ethic, train exhaustively to get better, and prepare fully so they can be their best when their best is needed.

    3. Trust like a Hell’s Angel — OWNERSHIP — Elite people trust their preparation, own their strengths and weaknesses, know what they do best and build conviction around it, and compete with reckless abandon.

    The biggest impact we can have in the second half is developing more Hell’s Angels. We are really good at working before games. We excel at developing Boy Scouts. However, men play in the Big Leagues and that requires the reckless abandon of a Hell’s Angel. This is a mentality that is developed. It is a harder mentality to develop with less control, more gray area, and less science. However, it is the separation between good coaches and great ones, good development systems and great ones, and good organizations and great ones. Training guys to unleash what they’ve got is an art and needs to be our WHAT in the second half.

    As you do some research on the Hell’s Angels, you come across three main qualities that set them apart and symbolize their mystique:

    1. Swagger — There is an extreme confidence in themselves, their brothers, and what they’re about. They carry a chip on their shoulder and dare others to knock it off. They have an edge. Do our players have an edge? Do we have an edge? What are we doing to develop that edge?

    2. Reckless abandon — Not only do they have an edge, but they live life on the edge. They’re described as free-spirited, which can be defined as somewhat irresponsible. They risk. They have no fear. They have a care-free and “care-less” attitude. You could argue that on one hand they care so much about who they are and what they do, but on the other hand they could care less in some areas such as what others think of them, of potential risks, of probabilities, etc. They’re more focused on possibilities than probabilities. They’re not consumed or swayed by what others think. They sell out to their purpose and live life fully and in-the-moment (“this pitch”). There has actually been a leadership book written about this approach to life, i.e. living life, experiencing it, and learning from your experiences. Their name comes from World War II fighting squadrons known for their extraordinary and dangerous feats of aviation. Do our players play with reckless abandon? Do we have reckless abandon? What are we doing to develop this mentality?

    3. Bound by brotherhood — At the end of the day, they are fiercely loyal to each other. It is about the group and the bonds that exist between members. They can fight with each other, but someone external better not say anything negative about them. They love each other. Are our players bound by brotherhood? Are we bound by brotherhood? What are we doing to develop this bond?

    As the calendar turns to July, we are selling out and committing to this approach. We’ve trained them. We need to train their trust now. Our focus should be on developing Hell’s Angels. That requires …

    – Building confidence (helping players know what they do well, perfecting those traits so we’re not just working on weaknesses, speaking greatness into them, etc.)

    – Encouraging risk (pushing players beyond their comfort zones, putting them in risky situations, viewing the risk as success rather than its result, celebrating risk taking, etc.)

    – Going alongside them (being a ‘guide on the side’ rather than a ‘sage on the stage,’ asking questions rather than giving answers, celebrating aggressive failure and the lessons that come from it, etc.)

    – Adding chaos and intensity to our training (get them out of their comfort zone, add stress, add competition to the work day, etc.)

    – Preparing them to compete rather than training all the time (get the focus on the competition, shift our purpose to preparation rather than working a physical technique, outward focus rather than inward, etc.)

    – Getting them outside of themselves and into the team (care about someone else, take care of each other, have each other’s back, etc.)

    For this to happen, we must get out of our comfort zones and flex our own Hell’s Angel muscle. We must be extreme in our commitment to these ideas. This is ultimately about developing a mentality and a culture where this becomes our identity. A culture of risk and less control is unsettling for us control freaks! However, it is the answer to letting skill out and WHAT we need to do in the second half.

    LB and Bernie will be following up with more details as we move forward. Sell out and commit to this. Coach with swagger, reckless abandon, and bounded by brotherhood and we’ll see those same traits in our players.

    HOKA HEY — It’s a good day to die!!!

  8. #22
    High five! nate's Avatar
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    Re: Pirates' weird Navy SEALS training doesn't go over well with top prospects

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    I suppose the water hose exercise could help this on field action.





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    Apollo Creed got Rocky into swimming.

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  9. #23
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    Re: Pirates' weird Navy SEALS training doesn't go over well with top prospects

    Quote Originally Posted by nate View Post
    Apollo Creed got Rocky into swimming.

    Didn't the Russian get Apollo in his grave the more traditional boxing way too?

  10. #24
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    Re: Pirates' weird Navy SEALS training doesn't go over well with top prospects

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Didn't the Russian get Apollo in his grave the more traditional boxing way too?
    Yeah, but the movies were called "Rocky," not "Apollo."
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

  11. #25
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Pirates' weird Navy SEALS training doesn't go over well with top prospects

    Quote Originally Posted by nate View Post
    Yeah, but the movies were called "Rocky," not "Apollo."
    That would have ruined the theme, but not us forget it was grizzled veteran "Mickey" with his old school, chicken chasing methods that was able to shape the raw and unpolished Italian Stallion

  12. #26
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    Re: Pirates' weird Navy SEALS training doesn't go over well with top prospects

    I'm all for thinking outside the box and coming with new ways to improve, but this is just plain stupid.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

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    Re: Pirates' weird Navy SEALS training doesn't go over well with top prospects

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Million dollars are paid to baseball players, which is a game of flexibility and skill, not hand to hand combat and tire lifting.

    Branch Rickey thought out of the box, he created sliding pits and Dodgertown.

    this is nonsense
    Tire lifting is actually a great way to build external strength and works multiple muscle groups. Not sure why they are doing hand to hand combat but I could see usefulness in it if it was punching bags. I wouldn't poo-poo those types of exercise too much.

  14. #28
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    Re: Pirates' weird Navy SEALS training doesn't go over well with top prospects

    change the world through baseball
    Are the Pirates going to start doing special ops? Man, what a whacked out worldview. Little wonder this clown has this type of activity going on in his organization.
    Can't win with 'em

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  15. #29
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Pirates' weird Navy SEALS training doesn't go over well with top prospects

    Quote Originally Posted by smith288 View Post
    Tire lifting is actually a great way to build external strength and works multiple muscle groups. Not sure why they are doing hand to hand combat but I could see usefulness in it if it was punching bags. I wouldn't poo-poo those types of exercise too much.
    Heavy lifting is also something that fares better under a controlled environment correct? Doesn't tire lifting usually occur in a race type atmosphere?

    First guy to pop a disc is gonna shut that exercise down fast

  16. #30
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    Re: Pirates' weird Navy SEALS training doesn't go over well with top prospects

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    Are the Pirates going to start doing special ops? Man, what a whacked out worldview. Little wonder this clown has this type of activity going on in his organization.
    "My name is James Taillon... I used to be a spy."


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