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Thread: Bruce, Votto, Cueto & Bailey

  1. #1
    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
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    Bruce, Votto, Cueto & Bailey

    I know this has been discussed before in various places, but I wanted to raise the issue one more time:

    Circa 2007, the Reds had four blue chip prospects awaiting callups: Jay Bruce, Homer Bailey, Joey Votto and Johnny Cueto. I, for one, was very excited to see them play -- but I certainly did not expect all four of them to pan out as they have.

    As we sit on the verge of the second playoff appearance driven by this talented quartet of players developed in-house, I want to reflect on the rarity of what we have all just seen. Not only did the team have four tip-top prospects (a feat in itself) but ALL of them have to date become above-average contributors to the major league team. It is also worth nothing the following three names on the list -- Stubbs, Mesoraco, Frazier -- are still with the team as well, making positive contributions in some regard.

    What are the comparable groups to this historically on the Reds? On other teams? What are their chances of prolonging a window of winning into the current decade?
    Last edited by RedEye; 09-30-2012 at 11:00 AM.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

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  3. #2
    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Bruce, Votto, Cueto & Bailey

    I suppose a comparable crop would the the 2009-10 Royals with Moustakas, Hosmer, Myers and Crow?
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  4. #3
    Haunted by walks
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    Re: Bruce, Votto, Cueto & Bailey

    Going by drafts, the 1969 draft of Gullett, Eastwick, Griffey and Grimsley is not too shabby. But Gullett went right to the bigs and the others came later.

  5. #4
    Member Superdude's Avatar
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    Re: Bruce, Votto, Cueto & Bailey

    Amazing how far Cueto and Votto have come. It seems like inflated scouting reports always leave me a little underwhelmed when most guys hit the pros, but those two have exceeded anyone's wildest imagination and then some. If you'd have said Votto would be a 1.000 OPS bat and Cueto would be a Cy Young type pitcher five years ago, you would've been laughed at.

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    Re: Bruce, Votto, Cueto & Bailey

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    It is also worth nothing the following three names on the list -- Stubbs, Mesoraco, Frazier -- are still with the team as well, making positive contributions in some regard.
    You could also argue that Francisco and Roenicke are contributing to the team as well, with Francisco being flipped for JJ Hoover and Roenicke being part of the package that brought Scott Rolen.

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    Re: Bruce, Votto, Cueto & Bailey

    As far as similar Reds prospect classes, I'd say the 1984/1985 classes would rank up there. Eric Davis got his first cup of coffee in 1984, Barry Larkin was drafted 4th overall in 1985, Tom Browning had his 20 win rookie season in 1985, Paul O'Neill got a sip of coffee in 1985, and Rob Dibble, Chris Sabo & Joe Oliver were bouncing around in the minors as recent early draft picks. Kurt Stillwell was also a big prospect for the Reds at the time, and he was eventually flipped for Danny Jackson.
    Last edited by Steve4192; 09-30-2012 at 02:03 PM.

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    Re: Bruce, Votto, Cueto & Bailey

    Quote Originally Posted by BCubb2003 View Post
    Going by drafts, the 1969 draft of Gullett, Eastwick, Griffey and Grimsley is not too shabby. But Gullett went right to the bigs and the others came later.
    The 1983 draft class was pretty damn solid.

    Kurt Stillwell (traded for Danny Jackson )
    Chris Sabo
    Joe Oliver
    Mike Montgomery (traded for Van Snider )
    Rob Dibble

  9. #8
    Knowledge Is Good Big Klu's Avatar
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    Re: Bruce, Votto, Cueto & Bailey

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve4192 View Post
    The 1983 draft class was pretty damn solid.

    Kurt Stillwell (traded for Danny Jackson )
    Chris Sabo
    Joe Oliver
    Mike Montgomery (traded for Van Snider )
    Rob Dibble
    However, Van Snider was later included in the trade with the Yankees for Hal Morris.
    Eric Stratton, Rush Chairman. Damn glad to meet ya.

  10. #9
    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Bruce, Votto, Cueto & Bailey

    I suppose the "Crown Jewels" of the mid-1980s were comparable -- Davis, Larkin, Stillwell, O'Neill, Jones, Daniels, etc. The problem was that they didn't really have any good pitching to speak of... and I don't think they could be called "blue chip" prospects all at the same time. I guess my point is that the Reds had/have a pretty rare circumstance with these four guys all emerging at the same time.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  11. #10
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    Re: Bruce, Votto, Cueto & Bailey

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    I suppose the "Crown Jewels" of the mid-1980s were comparable -- Davis, Larkin, Stillwell, O'Neill, Jones, Daniels, etc. The problem was that they didn't really have any good pitching to speak of
    While they didn't draft-and-develop any blue chip arms, they did a fantastic job of flipping extraneous bats for blue-chip arms. Getting Rijo and Jackson for an over-the-hill Dave Parker and Kurt Stillwell was a stroke of genius.

    ... and I don't think they could be called "blue chip" prospects all at the same time.
    I won't argue with that. In hindsight, those guys were all good major leaguers, but many of them were considered disappointments as minor leaguers and didn't blossom until after they hit the majors.

  12. #11
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Bruce, Votto, Cueto & Bailey

    1970 Reds

    Code:
    CINCINNATI REDS
    SEASON
    1970
    AGE <= 27
    AGE displayed only--not a sorting criteria
    
    GAMES                            G       AGE    
    1    Johnny Bench                158       22   
    2    Lee May                     153       27   
    3    Bobby Tolan                 152       24   
    4    Bernie Carbo                125       22   
    5    Dave Concepcion             101       22   
    6    Woody Woodward              100       27   
    7    Hal McRae                    70       24   
    8    Wayne Granger                67       26   
    9    Angel Bravo                  65       27   
    10   Darrel Chaney                57       22   
    11   Don Gullett                  44       19   
    12   Gary Nolan                   37       22   
    T13  Jim McGlothlin               35       26   
    T13  Jim Merritt                  35       26   
    15   Wayne Simpson                27       21   
    16   Pedro Borbon                 12       23   
    17   John Noriega                  8       26   
    18   Frank Duffy                   6       23   
    T19  Mel Behney                    5       22   
    T19  Milt Wilcox                   5       20   
    21   Bill Plummer                  4       23

    1925 A's

    Code:
    GAMES                       G       AGE    
    Al Simmons                  153       23   
    Mickey Cochrane             134       22   
    Max Bishop                  105       25   
    Eddie Rommel                 52       27   
    Lefty Grove                  45       25    
    Jimmie Foxx                  10       17
    Last edited by westofyou; 09-30-2012 at 05:00 PM.

  13. #12
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    Re: Bruce, Votto, Cueto & Bailey

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    1970 Reds

    Code:
    CINCINNATI REDS
    SEASON
    1970
    AGE <= 27
    AGE displayed only--not a sorting criteria
    
    GAMES                            G       AGE    
    1    Johnny Bench                158       22   
    2    Lee May                     153       27   
    3    Bobby Tolan                 152       24   
    4    Bernie Carbo                125       22   
    5    Dave Concepcion             101       22   
    6    Woody Woodward              100       27   
    7    Hal McRae                    70       24   
    8    Wayne Granger                67       26   
    9    Angel Bravo                  65       27   
    10   Darrel Chaney                57       22   
    11   Don Gullett                  44       19   
    12   Gary Nolan                   37       22   
    T13  Jim McGlothlin               35       26   
    T13  Jim Merritt                  35       26   
    15   Wayne Simpson                27       21   
    16   Pedro Borbon                 12       23   
    17   John Noriega                  8       26   
    18   Frank Duffy                   6       23   
    T19  Mel Behney                    5       22   
    T19  Milt Wilcox                   5       20   
    21   Bill Plummer                  4       23
    Wilcox was a key member of the 1983 Tigers WS team pitching staff.
    The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It has been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. -- Terrance Mann (Field of Dreams)

  14. #13
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Bruce, Votto, Cueto & Bailey

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan View Post
    Wilcox was a key member of the 1983 Tigers WS team pitching staff.
    1984, but yes
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  15. #14
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    Re: Bruce, Votto, Cueto & Bailey

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    1984, but yes
    Oops. Yeah, 1984.
    The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It has been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. -- Terrance Mann (Field of Dreams)

  16. #15
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Bruce, Votto, Cueto & Bailey

    I wasn't a big Krivsky fan but big ups to him for not trading away these guys for Erik Bedard, Joe Blanton, or any other schmuck that would have set us back several years.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."


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