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Thread: Postseason Scoreboard watching....

  1. #196
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Postseason Scoreboard watching....

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds View Post
    From Rule 2.00

    "When it seems apparent that a batted ball will be an Infield Fly, the umpire shall immediately declare “Infield Fly” for the benefit of the runners. If the ball is near the baselines, the umpire shall declare “Infield Fly, if Fair.” "
    Notice the rule doesn't say that it has to be apparent immediately. Don't conflate the two things. Being apparent immediately and immediately calling it when it's apparent are not one in the same. The umpire did not call it until it was apparent Kozma could get to it with ordinary effort. Considering he stopped at the spot where the ball eventually dropped, it was an ordinary play. But the umpired had to wait to be sure of that.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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  3. #197
    Moderator The Operator's Avatar
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    Re: Postseason Scoreboard watching....

    I can't believe Jim Thome is still around.
    Quote Originally Posted by BCubb2003 View Post
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  4. #198
    Member Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    Re: Postseason Scoreboard watching....

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    Notice the rule doesn't say that it has to be apparent immediately. Don't conflate the two things.
    Now you're being obtuse.

    That's how the rule is always called, because that's the nature of the infield fly.
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.

  5. #199
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Postseason Scoreboard watching....

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds View Post
    Now you're being obtuse.

    That's how the rule is always called, because that's the nature of the infield fly.
    Surely you can discuss this maturely without resorting to attacks.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  6. #200
    Potential Lunch Winner Dom Heffner's Avatar
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    Re: Postseason Scoreboard watching....

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds View Post
    From Rule 2.00

    "When it seems apparent that a batted ball will be an Infield Fly, the umpire shall immediately declare “Infield Fly” for the benefit of the runners. If the ball is near the baselines, the umpire shall declare “Infield Fly, if Fair.” "
    You think? Under Brutus' argument the umpire should wait to see if its routune. Which sort of means it isnt routine, if you have to wait.
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  7. #201
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    Re: Postseason Scoreboard watching....

    I've umpired a lot and while you want to wait long enough to be sure of where the ball is, IMO he called that way way too late. I think you could make an argument for ordinary effort there, but his timing was off.

  8. #202
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Postseason Scoreboard watching....

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    Notice the rule doesn't say that it has to be apparent immediately. Don't conflate the two things. Being apparent immediately and immediately calling it when it's apparent are not one in the same. The umpire did not call it until it was apparent Kozma could get to it with ordinary effort. Considering he stopped at the spot where the ball eventually dropped, it was an ordinary play. But the umpired had to wait to be sure of that.
    If Kozma was able to catch it with "ordinary" effort, I don't think the ump would have needed that much time to call IF.

    Interesting, I remember Kozma as being a potential Cincy draft pick a few years back.

  9. #203
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Postseason Scoreboard watching....

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom Heffner View Post
    You think? Under Brutus' argument the umpire should wait to see if its routune. Which sort of means it isnt routine, if you have to wait.
    He never had to sprint to get to the ball. That's an ordinary effort. The umpire is taught to simply wait to make sure the ball continues to hang up as long as it takes for the player to make a play on it.

    I took several umpiring classes in my 10 years of umpiring. Legion ball, which I did a lot of, uses major league rules. He absolutely 100% did exactly as everything I've ever been taught in training.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  10. #204
    Member Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    Re: Postseason Scoreboard watching....

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    Surely you can discuss this maturely without resorting to attacks.
    I'm not trying to attack, I'm sorry. I just think I'm debating a contrarian opinion here.

    It's pretty clear the rule was misapplied. It's called immediately because the nature of any ball off the bat that should be an infield fly will be immediately clear as an infield fly.

    If you have to wait on it and judge it, so do the fielders, meaning it's no longer a routine pop out.
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.

  11. #205
    Member mattfeet's Avatar
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    Re: Postseason Scoreboard watching....

    I just watched the replay on MLB.com again - Kozma was never once under the spot where the ball landed. The ball land 2 steps behind him and a step to his left. That from the furthest spot that Kozma traveled to, NOT where he ended up.

    That said, IMO, this was not the right call. Kozma had yet to reach the spot where the ball landed before he bailed on it. Could he have made the catch? Probably. Would it have been easy? Not really.

    -Matt

  12. #206
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Postseason Scoreboard watching....

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds View Post
    I'm not trying to attack, I'm sorry. I just think I'm debating a contrarian opinion here.

    It's pretty clear the rule was misapplied. It's called immediately because the nature of any ball off the bat that should be an infield fly will be immediately clear as an infield fly.

    If you have to wait on it and judge it, so do the fielders, meaning it's no longer a routine pop out.
    No you're debating someone who umpired for several years. I'm not being a contrarian, I'm speaking from experience. That's the rule and he did exactly as he's taught to do. You say it was "pretty clear" that it was misapplied, but what formal training to you have to know this? I promise you 100% that he did exactly as I was taught to do in my training. That's what umpires are taught to do on that call. No offense, but I don't know how someone can say it was clearly misapplied when they initially didn't know that the ball didn't have to be on the infield to be an infield fly. Your initial statement was that "how can a ball dropping in the outfield be an infield fly rule?"

    It doesn't have to be obvious as soon as the ball is hit. If the infielder doesn't have to sprint to the ball, it's generally considered ordinary effort. And if the ball hangs up long enough for an infielder that is back pedaling or jogging, that's usually considered an infield fly when the umpire deems the infielder is going to be able to make a play on the ball.
    Last edited by Brutus; 10-05-2012 at 09:12 PM.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  13. #207
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Postseason Scoreboard watching....

    Protest denied by MLB.

  14. #208
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    Re: Postseason Scoreboard watching....

    Quote Originally Posted by mattfeet View Post
    I just watched the replay on MLB.com again - Kozma was never once under the spot where the ball landed. The ball land 2 steps behind him and a step to his left. That from the furthest spot that Kozma traveled to, NOT where he ended up.

    That said, IMO, this was not the right call. Kozma had yet to reach the spot where the ball landed before he bailed on it. Could he have made the catch? Probably. Would it have been easy? Not really.

    -Matt
    He was at most a step away from where it landed and he bailed out probably 2-3 seconds before it fell.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  15. #209
    Member mattfeet's Avatar
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    Re: Postseason Scoreboard watching....

    So what you're saying is, in contrast to your previous statements, that Kozma was not once directly underneath where the ball finally landed?

  16. #210
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Postseason Scoreboard watching....

    Quote Originally Posted by mattfeet View Post
    So what you're saying is, in contrast to your previous statements, that Kozma was not once directly underneath where the ball finally landed?
    I said at most. And that's debatable. I still stand by the belief he was in the spot where it was landed, but there's no way to prove that so we're just merely arguing semantics at this point.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda


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