Turn Off Ads?
Page 19 of 62 FirstFirst ... 915161718192021222329 ... LastLast
Results 271 to 285 of 917

Thread: Postseason Scoreboard watching....

  1. #271
    Member blumj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Northern MA
    Posts
    5,120

    Re: Postseason Scoreboard watching....

    Anyone watching this other game? O's just took a 2-1 lead.
    "Reality tells us there are no guarantees. Except that some day Jon Lester will be on that list of 100-game winners." - Peter Gammons


  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #272
    We Need Our Myths reds1869's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Downtown Cincinnati
    Posts
    4,636

    Re: Postseason Scoreboard watching....

    Thank goodness this time tomorrow we'll be arguing about the Reds instead of the Cardinals.

  4. #273
    Member 757690's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Venice
    Posts
    33,145

    Re: Postseason Scoreboard watching....

    It's actually a great game. Saunders is mystifying the Rangers by throwing some key double play balls.

    This one actually feels like a playoff game. The Braves/Cards felt like a spring training game.
    Hoping to change my username to 75769023

  5. #274
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga.
    Posts
    10,904

    Re: Postseason Scoreboard watching....

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom Heffner View Post
    If we all have to wait and see if it is routine for five seconds, then it defeats the purpose of the rule.

    You can't decide, fifteen feet away from being caught that it is now routine.

    The fact that he waited tells you it wasn't. Apparent=obvious. If you have to wait until you're sure, it isn't obvious and therefore cannot be called immediately.



    The rule is not made in a vacuum. It has an intent. That SS could not double the runner by dropping the ball on purpose.
    The umpire was waiting to see if the infielder ever had to give more than ordinary effort and more importantly, had to see how long the ball would hang up giving the shortstop a chance to make a solid play on the ball. Since he never sprinted or never had to turn his back, he thus never had to give more than ordinary effort. The umpire was giving the benefit of the doubt to make sure he didn't have to since it was hit so high and so deep into the outfield.

    Again, I'm not trying to be as blunt as this but I have no choice... your interpretation of how ordinary effort is defined isn't correct. There is no hard and fast rule, but generally speaking, umpires use running/sprinting/turning one's back as a guideline as to whether more than ordinary effort was given.

    I was told over and over in umpires camp that you can wait to the very last second to make the call if it takes that long before you're sure an ordinary effort can be made. Whether you like it or agree with it or not, that is absolutely how umpires are trained. George has already said as much earlier in this thread and I'm certain he will agree with that.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  6. #275
    Potential Lunch Winner Dom Heffner's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    7,200

    Re: Postseason Scoreboard watching....

    Quote Originally Posted by reds1869 View Post
    Thank goodness this time tomorrow we'll be arguing about the Reds instead of the Cardinals.
    Why am I bitter about the draw?

    I'd rather play the Yankees in New York.

  7. #276
    Potential Lunch Winner Dom Heffner's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    7,200

    Re: Postseason Scoreboard watching....

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    The umpire was waiting to see if the infielder ever had to give more than ordinary effort and more importantly, had to see how long the ball would hang up giving the shortstop a chance to make a solid play on the ball. Since he never sprinted or never had to turn his back, he thus never had to give more than ordinary effort. The umpire was giving the benefit of the doubt to make sure he didn't have to since it was hit so high and so deep into the outfield.

    Again, I'm not trying to be as blunt as this but I have no choice... your interpretation of how ordinary effort is defined isn't correct. There is no hard and fast rule, but generally speaking, umpires use running/sprinting/turning one's back as a guideline as to whether more than ordinary effort was given.

    I was told over and over in umpires camp that you can wait to the very last second to make the call if it takes that long before you're sure an ordinary effort can be made. Whether you like it or agree with it or not, that is absolutely how umpires are trained. George has already said as much earlier in this thread and I'm certain he will agree with that.
    No. Waiting means it isn't apparent. I have to wait and see if it's obvious? That makes no sense.

  8. #277
    Member Redsfan320's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    2,297

    Re: Postseason Scoreboard watching....

    Been watching O's-Rangers since Bottom 1st. Has been a pretty good game. Didn't really get the trainers coming out, didn't really see anything with Darvish there, then that mess with the translator, but whatever. Don't really have much rooting interest here- I often root for TEX in the playoffs because they're usually there, and they're more likable than the Yankees. However, what a story BAL has been.

    Oh... and so ends the night for Saunders.

    320
    I'd rather listen to Kelch read the phone book than suffer through Thom Brennaman's attempt to make every instance on the field the most important event since the discovery of manned space flight. -westofyou

  9. #278
    Potential Lunch Winner Dom Heffner's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    7,200

    Re: Postseason Scoreboard watching....

    You were told in umpire camp that you can wait to make an infield fly call?

  10. #279
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Milford, OH
    Posts
    1,658

    Re: Postseason Scoreboard watching....

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    It's actually a great game. Saunders is mystifying the Rangers by throwing some key double play balls.

    This one actually feels like a playoff game. The Braves/Cards felt like a spring training game.
    Saunders is Al Leiter.

  11. #280
    Potential Lunch Winner Dom Heffner's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    7,200

    Re: Postseason Scoreboard watching....

    You first said the rule didn't say immediately. Now you're saying tou can wait all day and THEN make the call immediately after you took ten seconds to reach your decision.

    I'm hung up on it because the rule is made for the benefit if the runner and no one else. How...does the runner know to risk advancing a base if the umpire doesn't immediately make the call? What point does that serve?

  12. #281
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Milford, OH
    Posts
    1,658

    Re: Postseason Scoreboard watching....

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom Heffner View Post
    You first said the rule didn't say immediately. Now you're saying tou can wait all day and THEN make the call immediately after you took ten seconds to reach your decision.

    I'm hung up on it because the rule is made for the benefit if the runner and no one else. How...does the runner know to risk advancing a base if the umpire doesn't immediately make the call? What point does that serve?
    This. The Braves were defeated twice by this call.

  13. #282
    Member 757690's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Venice
    Posts
    33,145

    Re: Postseason Scoreboard watching....

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    I think the Braves got hosed on that call, but they sure played poorly enough to deserve to lose. The Cardinals were less "offensive" in the way that they played that game, so as much as I think the call was horrible, I think the team that was the better team on this day won the game.
    A very poignant point that is usually overlooked in games like this. The call was bad, but not nearly as bad as the Braves defense.
    Hoping to change my username to 75769023

  14. #283
    Member 15fan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    6,002

    Re: Postseason Scoreboard watching....

    My 9 year old daughter was at Larry Wayne's final game. There were plenty of tears tonight when she got home with the neighbors who took her.

    I'm no Braves apologist, but if I was at the game, I would've thrown my beer on the field, too. That was a horrible call.

    And for the record, there are very few things I like more than beer.

  15. #284
    Member marcshoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Zeta Reticuli
    Posts
    10,038

    Re: Postseason Scoreboard watching....

    Quote Originally Posted by Virginia Beach Reds View Post
    Saunders is he-who-must-not-be-named.
    I normally don't like correcting people's posts, but this was a clear violation.
    It is on the whole probable that we continually dream, but that consciousness makes such a noise that we do not hear it. Carl Jung.

  16. #285
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga.
    Posts
    10,904

    Re: Postseason Scoreboard watching....

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom Heffner View Post
    No. Waiting means it isn't apparent. I have to wait and see if it's obvious? That makes no sense.
    Seriously, take it up with the rules committee, major league baseball and all the instructional camps that have been teaching umpires to apply the rule in that form since its inception.

    Unless you think I'm a liar, I don't know why you're being so aggressive with me. I'm just telling you that is how it's enforced.

    It does NOT have to be apparent that an ordinary effort can be given right away. It doesn't have to be apparent halfway through the play. It can be apparent right up at the very last second and still be considered ordinary if the fielder never had to give extraordinary effort.

    You still haven't explained how it wasn't ordinary when the fielder never had to sprint to get to the ball. He was back pedaling the entire time and never had to turn his back into an all out sprint. Some would say that's ordinary.

    And even if you wouldn't, the threshold is not whether it should have been apparent immediately. He only has to call it when, in his judgment, it does become apparent.

    That is the rule. I'm 1,000 percent confident on that. That's how I was taught it, how I practiced it during drills and how I enforced it during legion games. That's how I learned it from former minor league umpires that taught me. That's how I read it in manuals and case books.

    If you think I'm lying, fine. But unless you think I'm lying, I'm telling you flat out how it's taught and how the rule is applied. Eliminate all your preconceived notions of what you think it should be. Because they're leading you down the wrong path on this.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | Gallen5862 | Plus Plus | Powel Crosley | RedlegJake | The Operator