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Thread: Postseason Scoreboard watching....

  1. #286
    Member blumj's Avatar
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    Re: Postseason Scoreboard watching....

    What should the punishment be for saying, "here's looking at Yu...Darvish"?
    "Reality tells us there are no guarantees. Except that some day Jon Lester will be on that list of 100-game winners." - Peter Gammons

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  3. #287
    Member Phhhl's Avatar
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    Re: Postseason Scoreboard watching....

    If it is the "rule" by the letter of the rule, fine. Call it, uphold it. But, that call could never been seen as within the confines of what the rule is intended to be, and the Braves have every right to be po'd off about it. Now, change the "rule" so that it makes actual sense.

    If this had happened to the Reds, I would be absolutely furious. Friggin' Cardinals are so lucky.

  4. #288
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    Re: Postseason Scoreboard watching....

    Quote Originally Posted by marcshoe View Post
    I normally don't like correcting people's posts, but this was a clear violation.
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  5. #289
    Beer is good!! George Anderson's Avatar
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    Re: Postseason Scoreboard watching....

    .
    Last edited by George Anderson; 10-05-2012 at 11:57 PM.
    "Boys, I'm one of those umpires that misses 'em every once in a while so if it's close, you'd better hit it." Cal Hubbard

  6. #290
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Postseason Scoreboard watching....

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    Because it's being judged by people that do not have the proper understanding of how the rule is interpreted and applied.

    It's not about being contrarian... it's about understanding the rule based on several years of training. At best, at very worst, it's a subjective 50/50 call. But the interpretation of the rule is absolutely 100% correct.

    The fact that you and others continue to cite the timing of when it was called as a reason for being "incompetent" shows a clear lack of understanding of the rule itself. Timing is irrelevant. The umpire can wait as long as he feels it's not apparent that ordinary effort could result in a catch. Once he feels an infielder is in fact in position to make a play with ordinary effort, only then does it have to be called.

    The infielder stopped right in the vicinity of the ball a full 2 seconds before it dropped and then got out of the way for an outfielder. At that moment in time, the umpire felt it was apparent that it could have required ordinary effort. And indeed, if the shortstop had not been called off, or at least thought so, he'd have made an ordinary catch.

    Arguing something that is not completely understood and haven't been trained on, then calling someone that does and has a contrarian, is rather poor form.
    That's insulting and arrogant. You don't have to be a trained upper level umpire to understand the application of this rule. I have umpired no higher than Little League and get your point. I completely get your view of the play, and I understand the infield fly rule, and that immediately doesn't mean as soon the ball is hit. But all things considered here, timing, the infielder's actions, and the intent of the rule, you're misapplying your training, and I imagine there would be differing views of this call by others who attended the same training as you.
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  7. #291
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Postseason Scoreboard watching....

    Quote Originally Posted by George Anderson View Post
    Ask yourself this question.

    How likely is it had the infield fly call not been called and the ball was caught, would Mike Matheny been running out on the field arguing an infield fly should have been called?

    It is not very likely, so bad call.
    You and I both know that has nothing to do with the rule but I wholeheartedly disagree that most managers wouldn't be arguing if that's not called. The shortstop never once had to sprint to get to that ball. Probably most everyone, location be damned, thought that ball was getting caught. Was there anything about the body language of Kozma that made anyone really think he wasn't getting to it? That right there, to me, is the spirit of the rule.
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  8. #292
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    Re: Postseason Scoreboard watching....

    GO ORIOLES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!

    No idea how I'm watching this game right now because my nerves are totally shot by how badly I want the O's to win but here I sit eyes glued to the TV screen. I have no clue how I'm going to watch the Reds game tomorrow night, LOL
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  9. #293
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Postseason Scoreboard watching....

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    That's insulting and arrogant. You don't have to be a trained upper level umpire to understand the application of this rule. I have umpired no higher than Little League and get your point. I completely get your view of the play, and I understand the infield fly rule, and that immediately doesn't mean as soon the ball is hit. But all things considered here, timing, the infielder's actions, and the intent of the rule, you're misapplying your training, and I imagine there would be differing views of this call by others who attended the same training as you.
    Where did I say everyone would call it the same? I never once said that. In fact, I have stated a few times since that I do think there's still some subjectivity to 'ordinary effort' as there's no hard and fast rule as to what constitutes it. Generally speaking, if a fielder doesn't have to sprint to catch a pop fly, it's considered ordinary... but again, that's not hard and fast. And I never said that was.

    My point though is that the only argument within the rules people can make is whether that play was ordinary. I think it is, but I have already recognized not every umpire will agree with that. The point I'm getting at though is that the umpire was absolutely within the right justification for making the call by rule and all this talk about how late he made the call and where the ball landed and all that... it's all irrelevant. That's not a misapplication of training. Thems the rules.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  10. #294
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    Re: Postseason Scoreboard watching....

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    You and I both know that has nothing to do with the rule but I wholeheartedly disagree that most managers wouldn't be arguing if that's not called. The shortstop never once had to sprint to get to that ball. Probably most everyone, location be damned, thought that ball was getting caught. Was there anything about the body language of Kozma that made anyone really think he wasn't getting to it? That right there, to me, is the spirit of the rule.
    timing, timing, timing. No indication until well after the ball dropped. I don't agree with this at all. Holbrook interpreted a rule meant to protect an offense and did the exact opposite by waiting. Having said that, it's not a call he needs to make. Watching it live on TV, it did look like an infield fly.
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  11. #295
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Postseason Scoreboard watching....

    Honest question... who here thought, based on how Kozma was going for the ball, that it was going to wind up falling for a hit? Is there anyone that really truly expected that ball to drop?

    The announcers, crowd and everyone else seemed genuinely surprised it fell. If that's the case, then by nature doesn't that seem like ordinary effort if most everyone expected it to be caught? Kozma never once had to give extra effort to get near the ball. He didn't turn his back. He didn't sprint. He was giving a routine back pedal that you see everyday from MLB shortstops. If you felt, whether you say so on here or not, the ball was likely going to be caught, then that's the spirit of the rule and it was the right call.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  12. #296
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Postseason Scoreboard watching....

    Quote Originally Posted by Virginia Beach Reds View Post
    timing, timing, timing. No indication until well after the ball dropped. I don't agree with this at all. Holbrook interpreted a rule meant to protect an offense and did the exact opposite by waiting. Having said that, it's not a call he needs to make. Watching it live on TV, it did look like an infield fly.
    There is no standard in the rules for giving the benefit of the doubt to an offense though. While it might seem there should be, that's not how it's written or enforced. I get that it seems like it should be that way, but it's honestly not.

    And timing, like I have said repeatedly, doesn't matter. The call only has to be made when the umpire feels it's become apparent it could be made ordinarily. That can occur at the last second and still be within the rules.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  13. #297
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    Re: Postseason Scoreboard watching....

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    Honest question... who here thought, based on how Kozma was going for the ball, that it was going to wind up falling for a hit? Is there anyone that really truly expected that ball to drop?

    The announcers, crowd and everyone else seemed genuinely surprised it fell. If that's the case, then by nature doesn't that seem like ordinary effort if most everyone expected it to be caught? Kozma never once had to give extra effort to get near the ball. He didn't turn his back. He didn't sprint. He was giving a routine back pedal that you see everyday from MLB shortstops. If you felt, whether you say so on here or not, the ball was likely going to be caught, then that's the spirit of the rule and it was the right call.
    I did not think it would fall, from TV it seemed from the batter reaction that it was a pop up. Having said that, I did not think it was an infield fly call, and I have been actively watching baseball for for 30 years. And, not bombing you Brutus, just seems like this call, at this time, was not was intended by baseball originators.
    Last edited by Virginia Beach Reds; 10-06-2012 at 12:15 AM.
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  14. #298
    Member Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    Re: Postseason Scoreboard watching....

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    Honest question... who here thought, based on how Kozma was going for the ball, that it was going to wind up falling for a hit? Is there anyone that really truly expected that ball to drop?

    The announcers, crowd and everyone else seemed genuinely surprised it fell. If that's the case, then by nature doesn't that seem like ordinary effort if most everyone expected it to be caught? Kozma never once had to give extra effort to get near the ball. He didn't turn his back. He didn't sprint. He was giving a routine back pedal that you see everyday from MLB shortstops. If you felt, whether you say so on here or not, the ball was likely going to be caught, then that's the spirit of the rule and it was the right call.
    I don't know if I would've bet on it falling, but every time a ball is hit in that area I brace myself for it to fall in. Maybe it's not likely, but it happens enough that I never rule it out.
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  15. #299
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Postseason Scoreboard watching....

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    Where did I say everyone would call it the same? I never once said that. In fact, I have stated a few times since that I do think there's still some subjectivity to 'ordinary effort' as there's no hard and fast rule as to what constitutes it. Generally speaking, if a fielder doesn't have to sprint to catch a pop fly, it's considered ordinary... but again, that's not hard and fast. And I never said that was.

    My point though is that the only argument within the rules people can make is whether that play was ordinary. I think it is, but I have already recognized not every umpire will agree with that. The point I'm getting at though is that the umpire was absolutely within the right justification for making the call by rule and all this talk about how late he made the call and where the ball landed and all that... it's all irrelevant. That's not a misapplication of training. Thems the rules.
    The infielder was running away from a ball in short left field when an infield fly was suddenly called. That is absolutely relevant. It was a quirky play, you want to apply the call as black and white rule application. And it is also relevant that Matheny would not likely argued "that was infield fly rule" if no call was made.
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  16. #300
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Postseason Scoreboard watching....

    Quite the game here. Hope it has the storybook ending for Baltimore.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."


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