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View Poll Results: Should Dusty receive an extension?

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Thread: Should Dusty Baker Receive an Extension?

  1. #136
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: Should Dusty Baker Receive an Extension?

    Game 5 wasn't Dusty's fault. I didn't agree with starting the runners in the 6th, but there was some logic behind it. Sure, maybe he left Latos in too long, but I remember Dusty bringing LeCure into a game in San Diego earlier this year with the bases laoded and getting torched for it.

    The problem was game 4. He managed it like it was a June game. He should have took Leake out the inning before he did, and most everybody was saying that. Also, putting Arredondo in a 5-3 game in the 7th inning instead of going to Marshall/Broxton/Chapman was just dumb. Then he played two bench guys (although, I didn't have a problem with that) as well. It was like he was playing for game 5. I was fine with starting Leake instead of Latos, but he really mismanaged that game.

    With all that being said, it wasn't all Dusty's fault. It was a team choke job. I'd have no problem if he was gone, but I don't have a problem bringing him back either.
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  3. #137
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    Re: Should Dusty Baker Receive an Extension?

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    Game 5 wasn't Dusty's fault. I didn't agree with starting the runners in the 6th, but there was some logic behind it. Sure, maybe he left Latos in too long, but I remember Dusty bringing LeCure into a game in San Diego earlier this year with the bases laoded and getting torched for it.

    The problem was game 4. He managed it like it was a June game. He should have took Leake out the inning before he did, and most everybody was saying that. Also, putting Arredondo in a 5-3 game in the 7th inning instead of going to Marshall/Broxton/Chapman was just dumb. Then he played two bench guys (although, I didn't have a problem with that) as well. It was like he was playing for game 5. I was fine with starting Leake instead of Latos, but he really mismanaged that game.

    With all that being said, it wasn't all Dusty's fault. It was a team choke job. I'd have no problem if he was gone, but I don't have a problem bringing him back either.
    The problem with Dusty in my opinion is his faults seem to all come out at some critical point in the post season. He has made critical errors with his other teams that have cost them clinching games. Sometimes a manager is just good enough to get you to the postseason, and sometimes it takes a different level of manager to get you over the bump and to finally win. That's why I'm disappointed that Francona is already signed.

  4. #138
    KungFu Fighter AtomicDumpling's Avatar
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    Re: Should Dusty Baker Receive an Extension?

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    Lol, I agree.
    I assumed the poll would lean towards "No", but I had no idea it would be this lopsided.

    It's not Dusty's fault that the knee injury sapped Votto's power and that Cueto couldn't pitch in the playoffs.. It's not his fault that the pitching evaporated in the last 3 games (Latos losing his cool, etc)

    Honestly, Dusty might be the best manager this team has ever had.
    He gets results. Sure, he had talent this year, but on paper, this team could've easily finished 3rd in the division (as many on this board forecasted a non-contending season).
    The best manager the Reds have ever had? Dusty Baker? Wow.

    Dusty does good work in the clubhouse and handling personalities and motivating players to do their best. Those are his strong suits. He also has some glaring weaknesses.

    The guy's lineup construction and game management are atrocious and a laughingstock around the league.

    His loyalty to terrible players like Wilson Valdez and Miguel Cairo shows the players that production doesn't matter. Better Reds players had to sit and watch while two of the league's worst players garnered hundreds of plate appearances and played sub-par defense.

    The team was good because Bryan Price's pitching staff is fantastic. The team is loaded with premium talent. Pretty much any manager in baseball could run this team, most of them as good or better than Dusty Baker did.

    This Reds team will be fine no matter who the manager is. They didn't lose last year because Dusty was the manager. They didn't win this year because Dusty was the manager. Dusty was here both years and managed the same way. The difference was stellar newcomers Mat Latos, Sean Marshall, Ryan Ludwick, Zack Cozart and Todd Frazier. Dusty was just along for the ride.

    You can argue that Dusty is a decent manager who does some things well, but to say he is the best Reds manager ever is way over the top. I just don't get that at all.

  5. #139
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: Should Dusty Baker Receive an Extension?

    Quote Originally Posted by steig View Post
    The problem with Dusty in my opinion is his faults seem to all come out at some critical point in the post season. He has made critical errors with his other teams that have cost them clinching games. Sometimes a manager is just good enough to get you to the postseason, and sometimes it takes a different level of manager to get you over the bump and to finally win. That's why I'm disappointed that Francona is already signed.
    He's just an easy scape goat to make. If the Reds score more than 1 run in Game 3 we're all kicking back and relaxing until Sunday and everything is great. Same thing if the Reds get the tieing run home yesterday in the 4 straight innings they had.

    It's just too easy to put it all on Baker. He PH for Stubbs with Frazier in the 8th inning which got the tieing run to the plate that inning. He handled Cueto going down in Game 1 perfectly. He had his good moments and he had his bad moments, just like every player on the team did.

    It was truly a team effort.
    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
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  6. #140
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    Re: Should Dusty Baker Receive an Extension?

    I agree: Dusty Baker may be, not completely convinced, the best manager the Reds have had in the last 5 years...sigh...Speier is pretty close but I'm willing to give Dusty the nod here...

  7. #141
    KungFu Fighter AtomicDumpling's Avatar
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    Re: Should Dusty Baker Receive an Extension?

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    He's just an easy scape goat to make. If the Reds score more than 1 run in Game 3 we're all kicking back and relaxing until Sunday and everything is great. Same thing if the Reds get the tieing run home yesterday in the 4 straight innings they had.

    It's just too easy to put it all on Baker. He PH for Stubbs with Frazier in the 8th inning which got the tieing run to the plate that inning. He handled Cueto going down in Game 1 perfectly. He had his good moments and he had his bad moments, just like every player on the team did.

    It was truly a team effort.
    Most people are not basing their opinion of Dusty solely on this playoff series. Most people were ready to move on from Dusty long before this playoff series with the Giants. What happened in this series is merely a microcosm of Dusty's tenure in Cincinnati.

    The guy has obvious weaknesses that Reds fans have seen for years. Some of them were exposed again here in the 2012 playoffs, but I don't think people are wanting him gone simply because they blame him for the Reds losing the series. It isn't Dusty's fault the Reds are out of the playoffs. Most people just feel there are better options out there.

  8. #142
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    Re: Should Dusty Baker Receive an Extension?

    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling View Post
    Most people are not basing their opinion of Dusty solely on this playoff series. Most people were ready to move on from Dusty long before this playoff series with the Giants. What happened in this series is merely a microcosm of Dusty's tenure in Cincinnati.

    The guy has obvious weaknesses that Reds fans have seen for years. Some of them were exposed again here in the 2012 playoffs, but I don't think people are wanting him gone simply because they blame him for the Reds losing the series. It isn't Dusty's fault the Reds are out of the playoffs. Most people just feel there are better options out there.
    You just wait for the next genius they hire. There aren't that many brilliant in-game managers whose choices always, or even usually, work out.

    Every team has fans who bash the manager. If the manager is patient, it's no good. If he acts very quickly, it's no good. The only team that has a good manager at year's end is the World Series champion, and its fans sometimes would disagree.

    Dusty is consistent, he has a style, it's worked well over the years. I can justify virtually every move he made this series. Some turned out well, some didn't. Remember after Games 1 and 2, he was being praised to the hilt on this very site.

    I have no problem with a change, I like fresh faces to run a team sometimes, maybe they take a fresh look at things. But I fear you'll wait a long time before the next guy wins 97 games.

    I still say that this team's personnel mix was deficient on the offensive side. I said it in April. Ultimately, the Reds lost because they couldn't score off Ryan Volgesong, they couldn't get a big hit yesterday, and Leake and Latos, two VERY young pitchers had troubles.

    I would MUCH rather see them fix the offense than change managers.

  9. #143
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Should Dusty Baker Receive an Extension?

    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling View Post
    The guy's lineup construction and game management are atrocious and a laughingstock around the league.

    His loyalty to terrible players like Wilson Valdez and Miguel Cairo shows the players that production doesn't matter. Better Reds players had to sit and watch while two of the league's worst players garnered hundreds of plate appearances and played sub-par defense.
    .
    Maybe Dusty realizes the value of using the subs to rest his regular players?
    Especially considering the injury issues this team has had to position players?
    Any manager would've had to play Cairo and Valdez this year..

    Dusty is well respected around the league. Maybe a few bloggers that need to boost their self-esteem think that Baker is a laughingstock, but the actual people in the game respect him. He's been around a long time. If he was a laughing stock (like Bob Boone), he wouldn't have had such a long career.

    People mock his lineups, yet the Reds consistently had one of the top offenses.
    At the begining of the year, LF was a black hole, yet Dusty's patience was rewarded as Ludwick siezed the job. (The same Ludwick that half the board wanted to DFA). Heisey also got a fair chance to claim the job.
    Dusty gave Stubbs every chance to suceed.. That didn't work out, but it's not like it cost the Reds a playoff appearance. When the games mattered (playoffs), Stubbs was batting #8.. Was there any playoff lineup you thought was sub-optimal?
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  10. #144
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    Re: Should Dusty Baker Receive an Extension?

    Quote Originally Posted by sivman17 View Post
    Not sure if anyone has posted this yet but was wondering if anyone else had seen this.

    G Scott Kyser Jr posted these on Twitter last night.

    It's early, but according to my sources within the #Reds organization, Dusty Baker will not be back as #Reds manager. His deal has expired

    Apparently Walt Jocketty had decided he was going to bring in how own guy if Baker failed to get the #Reds past the NLDS. And here we are

    Not sure what to make of this guy. I had never heard of him but he covers sports for WCPO. I'm not sure who his 'sources' are.
    I don't doubt that Walt would like a different manager, but I can't believe that he would make a decision based on one series. Just not like Walk at all.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  11. #145
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    Re: Should Dusty Baker Receive an Extension?

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post

    People mock his lineups, yet the Reds consistently had one of the top offenses.
    At the begining of the year, LF was a black hole, yet Dusty's patience was rewarded as Ludwick siezed the job. (The same Ludwick that half the board wanted to DFA). Heisey also got a fair chance to claim the job.
    Dusty gave Stubbs every chance to suceed.. That didn't work out, but it's not like it cost the Reds a playoff appearance. When the games mattered (playoffs), Stubbs was batting #8.. Was there any playoff lineup you thought was sub-optimal?
    Good post, I agree on Dusty, but I strongly disagree that the Reds had one of the top offenses.

    You probably can cherry pick a stat or two in favor of that point, but the team was below average in hits, OBP, BA, walks, among other things. Ninth in the NL in runs scored. And these stats are in the NL, the weaker offensive league.

    To me, Dusty gets credit winning in spite of the offense, not because of it.

    And it had nothing to do with his batting orders. It's the personnel.
    Last edited by Kc61; 10-12-2012 at 05:37 PM.

  12. #146
    First Time Caller SunDeck's Avatar
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    Re: Should Dusty Baker Receive an Extension?

    They had great results this year, reaching the post season, despite losing their MVP player for a month and a half. I would not want to work for a company that fires someone in management who has out performed his competition (winning the division) and who has the respect and adoration of his subordinates.
    Next Reds manager, second shooter. --Confirmed on Redszone.

  13. #147
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    Re: Should Dusty Baker Receive an Extension?

    Quote Originally Posted by SunDeck View Post
    They had great results this year, reaching the post season, despite losing their MVP player for a month and a half. I would not want to work for a company that fires someone in management who has out performed his competition (winning the division) and who has the respect and adoration of his subordinates.
    But what if the guy they fired put up each week an inefficient lunch break schedule?
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  14. #148
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    Re: Should Dusty Baker Receive an Extension?

    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling View Post

    His loyalty to terrible players like Wilson Valdez and Miguel Cairo shows the players that production doesn't matter. Better Reds players had to sit and watch while two of the league's worst players garnered hundreds of plate appearances and played sub-par defense.

    .
    This is really unfair. Dusty doesn't acquire the talent. Dusty didn't sign Cairo to a two year deal. He didn't acquire Valdez to replace Janish. Those are front office moves.

    With a five man bench, you have to play your subs sometimes. When Votto and Rolen were both out, he had to use Cairo. When Cozart was out, he had to use Valdez. When both CFers were out, he used Valdez.

    When he rested guys at their positions, he used Cairo and Valdez. He didn't acquire them.

  15. #149
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    Re: Should Dusty Baker Receive an Extension?

    1) Phillips
    2) Cozart
    3) Votto
    4) Ludwick
    5) Bruce
    6) Rolen
    7) Hanigan
    8) Stubbs

    Someone give me a significantly better lineup.

    And as far bullpen use in the playoffs, that just seems like total monday morning quarterbacking. Bochy's being worshipped now for his quick hook, when in reality, it could've blown up in his face just as easily. Arredondo faced five batters and gave up three runs. If Hoover wasn't warming up to start the inning, I don't know if there's a hook fast enough for how bad Arredondo pitched. And regardless of what happened against Posey, I'm still giving Latos the ball every time in that situation. Just didn't work out.

  16. #150
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
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    Re: Should Dusty Baker Receive an Extension?

    Quote Originally Posted by SunDeck View Post
    They had great results this year, reaching the post season, despite losing their MVP player for a month and a half. I would not want to work for a company that fires someone in management who has out performed his competition (winning the division) and who has the respect and adoration of his subordinates.
    Think of it this way:

    Would you keep around a salesman who is constantly able to drum up new potential clients, but is absolutely incapable of closing the sale?

    That's Dusty Baker. When the games count the most, he gets outmanaged and his teams find creative ways to lose.

    I'm sick of losing. I'm sick of looking up and seeing 1990 as the last year this organization had any relevance. I don't want to turn into another Chicago or Cleveland -- where you have fans who are born, live, and die never seeing their favorite team hoisting a trophy or raising a banner. Accepting good regular seasons and poor postseasons as positive things embraces mediocrity.

    It's time to go find someone who can bring this team to better things than mediocrity while there is still a chance.
    Championships Matter.
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