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Thread: Why hasn't Cincinnati grown as a city?

  1. #76
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    Re: Why hasn't Cincinnati grown as a city?

    Yeah, I've lived in Cincinnati for over a decade and have stepped foot in Clifton all of about 5 times and I don't think I've ever even been to Avondale, Bond Hill, University Heights or Corryville.

    Of course there are bad neighborhoods, lots of them - every big city has them. You can manipulate the statistics to say whatever you want them to say. However between the river and the Gateway Quarter it is extremely safe and getting safer. When I think of Cincinnati, that's what I think of - obviously 99% of us are going to avoid Avondale, Bond Hill, and the bad parts of Clifton. The business district downtown, the banks, the areas around the stadiums, and now up into the Gateway Quarter are all extremely safe. Compare Cincinnati to Detroit - you can't even walk around the stadiums anymore without fear.

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  3. #77
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Why hasn't Cincinnati grown as a city?

    Why is this thread even in this section of the site?

  4. #78
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Why hasn't Cincinnati grown as a city?

    nm

  5. #79
    Custodial Engineer Bob Sheed's Avatar
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    Re: Why hasn't Cincinnati grown as a city?

    Quote Originally Posted by camisadelgolf View Post
    College neighborhoods are notoriously unsafe.
    I have hung out in 7 or 8 different college towns. There are some sketchy parts outside of OSU. Beyond that, I have yet to find anything even remotely as sketchy as Clifton. And on campus? Nowhere else even comes close.


    I never said Cincinnati wasn't safe. Comparatively, I think it is quite safe.

    But Clifton, compared to most other college areas? It's not even close.
    "And why do false truths persist, getting passed down the decades as if they were fact? It comes back to the same point: People believe things that are wrong because, individually, people rarely investigate their own beliefs, particularly when what they believe makes sense intuitively. Even more so when those around them agree with them." -K.F.

  6. #80
    Custodial Engineer Bob Sheed's Avatar
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    Re: Why hasn't Cincinnati grown as a city?

    Quote Originally Posted by cooperlamar View Post
    Yeah, I've lived in Cincinnati for over a decade and have stepped foot in Clifton all of about 5 times and I don't think I've ever even been to Avondale, Bond Hill, University Heights or Corryville.

    Of course there are bad neighborhoods, lots of them - every big city has them. You can manipulate the statistics to say whatever you want them to say. However between the river and the Gateway Quarter it is extremely safe and getting safer. When I think of Cincinnati, that's what I think of - obviously 99% of us are going to avoid Avondale, Bond Hill, and the bad parts of Clifton. The business district downtown, the banks, the areas around the stadiums, and now up into the Gateway Quarter are all extremely safe. Compare Cincinnati to Detroit - you can't even walk around the stadiums anymore without fear.
    What exactly are the "good parts" of Clifton? Ludlow? Been down there lately? I have. Looks like Calhoun Street did 10 years ago. I was shocked. It used to be what I would describe as somewhat upscale.

    As far as the area by the stadiums? Now that is something to be happy about. That area has changed for the better, in leaps and bounds from even a few years ago. It's a vibrant, really fun place to go nowadays. Used to be, you'd go to the ballpark, watch the game, and leave. Now there is just so much to do and see down there. It's really incredible how that area has changed for the better.

    Clifton on the other hand? It's sad. I'll tell you one thing that would improve Clifton about a million percent though.... bulldoze Hughes High School and put up a parking lot/greenspace.
    "And why do false truths persist, getting passed down the decades as if they were fact? It comes back to the same point: People believe things that are wrong because, individually, people rarely investigate their own beliefs, particularly when what they believe makes sense intuitively. Even more so when those around them agree with them." -K.F.

  7. #81
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Why hasn't Cincinnati grown as a city?

    I thought Cincinnati was a top-3 travel destination? It seems I have heard that once or a thousand times before.

  8. #82
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: Why hasn't Cincinnati grown as a city?

    I think a lot of you are confusing Corryville for Clifton.

  9. #83
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    Re: Why hasn't Cincinnati grown as a city?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Sheed View Post
    You are a troll, and you think you are bullying.
    I figured this would get down to the old ad hominems sooner or later. I don't think I'm "bullying" and I've never been accused of that by anyone, particularly when I'm simply asking someone to back up a statement they are making.

    Will admit I don't suffer fools gladly.

  10. #84
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Why hasn't Cincinnati grown as a city?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTruck View Post
    I'm sort of envious.

    Cincinnati is, what it is. But why hasn't it grown to become a major city? We have so many big companies here, why hasn't the core grown? I love cincinnati, but at the same time I realize that the core is 75% composed of african americans/low income families, and 25% middle, to high income families.

    I just love cincinnati, and I love the reds. But I always hoped during the 70's of the era of the BRM that Cincinnati would one day become a sister to Chicago, and expand in size and scope. Instead it feels we make minimal progress decade by decade.

    I just look at the Reds, and there week day 20K fans, and realize it's mainly due to most of the reds fans living in the suburbs and outside bordering states and middle ohio. If cincinnati grew, the core would follow. The stadium would be packed every night.

    I still love cincinnati, and accept it for what it is. But sometimes I close my eyes and envision how it would be if it was similar to chicago in scope and size. How lively the city would be, how lively the stadium would be on a nightly basis regardless of the month.

    We're making solid progress with the banks, and hopefully that's a sign of things to come..hopefully...
    Getting back to the original question, the obvious answer is that there aren't enough people here. Cincinnati has many virtues and vices but a city like Chicago has almost 3 times the area Cincinnati does. Chicago has about 9 times the population Cincinnati does. But that didn't happen overnight. Back in 1850, Cincinnati had almost 4 times the people Chicago had. By 1900 Chicago had 4 times the population Cincinnati had. Chicago grew over twice as much as Cincinnati had each decade until 1940 until Chicago had close to 9 times as many people as Cincinnati. So how do you get 1.5M people to move here and where do you put them? Obviously that's not going to happen.

    As for Reds attendance, you don't have to be a city like Chicago to draw 3M people. MIL and StL are perfect examples. However, MIL has a retractable roof stadium where fans can attend games in April and May and September and October without having to worry about the cold weather. Tomes have been written about why StL draws well. Cincinnati - with the exception of the 1970s - has never drawn well on a consistent basis. Even during the 70s, you would get weekday games where they drew 12K for ATL or HOU. But on the weekends, they would draw 35-50K on a regular basis. So it kind of evened out. Still, they never drew more than 2.6M in a given year. But that was awesome back then. Only L.A. was drawing close to 3M and that didn't happen till 1978.

    Now maybe, if the Reds continue to do well, they can get 37K a night to get 3M to come out. But that's only going to happen if everything breaks right. The Reds will have to do very well out of the gate and keep it up to the end. The weather will have to be nice. Promotions will have to be good too. Fans are really going to have to snap up season tickets. It's not impossible but it's pretty unlikely.
    The Rally Onion wants 150 fans before Opening Day.

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  11. #85
    Hisssssssss Yachtzee's Avatar
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    Re: Why hasn't Cincinnati grown as a city?

    I don't think crime has much to do with it. I find Cincinnati rather safe compared to other cities I've been to or lived in. The link texasdave posted makes Cincinnati look bad, but it makes all major cities look bad. Most of the big cities in Ohio are a 1 or 2 on the crime index and I suspect it's because the site compares big urban cities against smaller suburban and rural municipalities. Having lived in Chicago, I can say there are parts that make Clifton seem downright tame. Chicago may have a better crime rate index, but part of that has to do with Chicago gentrifying bad neighborhoods on the North side and pushing many low income residents out to Cicero or Hammond, IN. I imagine Cincinnati would look better if they bough up low income housing in Over-the-Rhine and Clifton and pushed the poor onto Blue Ash and Covington.
    Burn down the disco. Hang the blessed DJ. Because the music that he constantly plays, it says nothing to me about my life.

  12. #86
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Why hasn't Cincinnati grown as a city?

    Didn't Cincinnati do exactly that in OTR and that is why OTR is improving?

  13. #87
    ZCTRMTP!!!!! texasdave's Avatar
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    Re: Why hasn't Cincinnati grown as a city?

    I think several people must have rushed through the post too quickly and missed the pertinent sentence. Cincinnati fares poorly when compared with cities of a similar population size.

    Separately, it is always interesting and important to compare a city's crime rate with those of similarly sized communities - a fair comparison as larger cities tend to have more crime. NeighborhoodScout has done just that. With a population of 296,943, Cincinnati has a combined rate of violent and property crime that is very high compared to other places of similar population size. Regardless of whether Cincinnati does well or poorly compared to all other cities and towns in the US of all sizes, compared to places with a similar population, it fares badly. Few other communities of this size have a crime rate as high as Cincinnati.
    A summer watching a bad Reds' team, is still a pretty good summer.

  14. #88
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    Re: Why hasn't Cincinnati grown as a city?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Didn't Cincinnati do exactly that in OTR and that is why OTR is improving?
    Slowly but surely. Chicago has a 15 year jump on them though.
    Burn down the disco. Hang the blessed DJ. Because the music that he constantly plays, it says nothing to me about my life.

  15. #89
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    Re: Why hasn't Cincinnati grown as a city?

    Quote Originally Posted by texasdave View Post
    I think several people must have rushed through the post too quickly and missed the pertinent sentence. Cincinnati fares poorly when compared with cities of a similar population size.
    Cincinnati proper is small compared to many other cities proper, even though the metro area puts it into a larger market than some of those other cities. Look at some similarly situated cities, like Cleveland, St. Louis, or New Orleans. How do those cities compare?
    Burn down the disco. Hang the blessed DJ. Because the music that he constantly plays, it says nothing to me about my life.

  16. #90
    ZCTRMTP!!!!! texasdave's Avatar
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    Re: Why hasn't Cincinnati grown as a city?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yachtzee View Post
    Cincinnati proper is small compared to many other cities proper, even though the metro area puts it into a larger market than some of those other cities. Look at some similarly situated cities, like Cleveland, St. Louis, or New Orleans. How do those cities compare?
    Well, I posted and highlighted it twice. If that's not good enough, forget it. Believe what you want.
    A summer watching a bad Reds' team, is still a pretty good summer.


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