Why hasn't Cincinnati grown as a city?

[cooperlamar]

I looked (for fun, not really seriously) at a few of the condos going up in downtown Cincinnati when I was living there in 2008. I would love to have lived there, but there were a few major problems.

They ranged in price from about $200-220K for a studio or a one-bedroom. That, to me, seemed incredibly high, particularly for two reasons: 1. Property taxes notwithstanding, housing in Cincinnati tends to be cheap compared to other urban areas. $200K will buy you a lot of house in much of the city. So it seemed silly to spend that much money on a studio apartment. 2. Public transporation is difficult in Cincinnati. On the weekends, the exact time a resident of downtown would want to get out, maybe, it would take hours to get anywhere on a bus. That's the reason, IMHO, that a comparison with a city like Chicago can't be made. One of the major reasons one can usually afford a $200K condo downtown is because one saves a lot of money by not owning a car. That is not the case in Cincinnati.

At the time, too, there was little green space downtown, and not a single grocery store. I know the former has changed and maybe the latter has too. But you can't entice people to live downtown if they have to get in their cars and make a 20-minute drive every time they need to go to the grocery store, and you can't entice growing families to stay if they have to pay $220K for a one-bedroom and have really no choice to leave when their kids come along and they have nowhere to put them to sleep or take them to play. It seemed directly set up to appeal to young professionals, which is great, but all of those people who marry and have kids will eventually have to leave. I hope this has changed.

Great post and I completely agree. The condos are very expensive - the ones on 4th are as well as the new ones they're building in OTR.

There is still Kroger downtown and apparently it's been cleaned up somewhat. I know that it isn't ideal but it is in the area where all of the condos are being built, all of the new bars/restaurants in the Gateway Quarter and by Washington Park. I suspect that it will change quite a bit in the next year or so since it's survived this long.

[BurgervilleBuck]

What exactly are the "good parts" of Clifton? Ludlow? Been down there lately? I have. Looks like Calhoun Street did 10 years ago. I was shocked. It used to be what I would describe as somewhat upscale.

Oh, did they have a hipster coffee house and an elegant old movie theater? Honestly, I don't see any of what you're talking about and I live right off of MLK. Loud stereos? Yeah. Garbage? Yeah. But rapes, robberies, and the like I haven't seen.

Clifton on the other hand? It's sad. I'll tell you one thing that would improve Clifton about a million percent though.... bulldoze Hughes High School and put up a parking lot/greenspace.

Baby out with the bathwater, sir. Unless you don't mind busing those disaffected to your neighborhood schools.

Oh wait...

[BurgervilleBuck]

Clifton is pretty safe. But if you're in Corryville (e.g. Short Vine), you're going to run into problems sooner or later. That place has deteriorated for years. The conspiracy theorist in me says there was an effort to lower property value so it would be easier to buy it all, and allowing crime was the easiest way to do that. I have a lot of anecdotal evidence to back that up, and all you need to do is talk to business owners around that area to find out how plausible it is. UC is Cincinnati's biggest employer and have been growing at a swift rate. Their influence is grossly underestimated.

I don't think your theory is that far off the mark. Didn't UC buy the building that housed Sudsy Malone's?

[Joseph]

Think downtown Cincy is scary, try downtown Detroit.

My brother in law is a state trooper and he [while carrying] didn't want to hang around after the Tigers game. We even rolled through an area where we felt like Clark Griswold in East St Louis looking at all the plight.

[wolfboy]

I'm not an expert on the economics of Cincy. However, I really have enjoyed spending a weekend in Cincy the last 3 Septembers. I have really found downtown Cincinnati a great place to visit. They seem to have a street festival at Fountain Square most weekends. The area around the ballpark is great. I also enjoyed the Underground Railroad Museum. The downtown seems incredibly safe to me.

The constant activity on Fountain Square and in Washington Park is no accident. I read an article a few years ago about how they implemented this as a crime deterrent because it had been very effective in other cities.

[foxfire123]

Think downtown Cincy is scary, try downtown Detroit.

My brother in law is a state trooper and he [while carrying] didn't want to hang around after the Tigers game. We even rolled through an area where we felt like Clark Griswold in East St Louis looking at all the plight.

East St Louis... That is one scary town... I don't even like driving by on the interstate, let alone go anywhere IN it.

[camisadelgolf]

I don't think your theory is that far off the mark. Didn't UC buy the building that housed Sudsy Malone's?

Yeah, but that's kind of a different thing. Sudsy's only became available because of ownership's substance abuse problem. UC is making big plans for that entire strip. They're just trying to wait for more businesses on Short Vine to die out so they can make their move. The sad thing is that they're going to look like heroes when all the work is done even though they're the ones who are destroying the place in a roundabout way.

[gilpdawg]

Yeah, but that's kind of a different thing. Sudsy's only became available because of ownership's substance abuse problem. UC is making big plans for that entire strip. They're just trying to wait for more businesses on Short Vine to die out so they can make their move. The sad thing is that they're going to look like heroes when all the work is done even though they're the ones who are destroying the place in a roundabout way.

As long as Bogart's is still kicking, they will have a tough time killing it off completely. And Live Nation has put quite a bit of money into Bogart's lately, so it will likely be around for awhile. They re-did the bar area recently and got a new sound system a couple of years ago.

[Rojo]

Think downtown Cincy is scary, try downtown Detroit.

NYT article today about downtown Detroit's gentrification.

[George Anderson]

Think downtown Cincy is scary, try downtown Detroit.

.

Pre GPS days my brother in law and I got lost in downtown Detroit just as it was turning dark. There was no place we felt safe going in to and asking for directions. I am not to proud to admit I was pretty damn scared.

[Joseph]

Pre GPS days my brother in law and I got lost in downtown Detroit just as it was turning dark. There was no place we felt safe going in to and asking for directions. I am not to proud to admit I was pretty damn scared.

Worst part of it all was we HAD GPS and it kept sending us around in circles.

But yeah, two grown men were pretty uncomfortable there after dark.

[George Anderson]

Worst part of it all was we HAD GPS and it kept sending us around in circles.

But yeah, two grown men were pretty uncomfortable there after dark.

Its been a while but I vaguely recall asking a couple guys for directions but I couldn't understand them.

It was like being in a 3rd world country.

[mdccclxix]

The Cincy-Chicago comparisons are useless. Chicago is probably 85 years 'ahead' of Cincinnati, and I'm not joking. I don't know what could break right for Cincinnati to ever even get to the size of Chicago now, much less catch up within 85 years.

That said, it's good to dream big.

I really don't hear often enough, if ever, that the leadership under Mallory has completely turned the cities core in the right direction. I think Mallory has been an outstanding leader. Luken, not so much.

I like to think of the Reds as 'the' key to downtown's success. Given the synergy that occurred this year with the Banks and the great season they had, I think anyone could see my point. I'd even go so far as to say Jay Bruce, Joey Votto, and Johnny Cueto have as much say in the success of the city's core as any city council member. Beyond the 5-7 year window these players own, the city's core will have to rely on the Castinllini's guidance.

I really do. I think the Reds could do wonders for the city. A string of winning years that lasts a decade with a banner hung in there somewhere would create a perfect atmosphere to allow fans of all ages to visit, revisit, and perhaps move to a place that has tons of entertainment and could end up having some very intriguing and progressive areas to live. There is an alchemy that is taking place, and it's not a sure thing, but under Mallory's leadership the city has laid the cornerstones for a future that can experience growth and further the identity of the city.

Meanwhile, on the economic side, Cincinnati does need to grow it's own companies that can compete in the new global economy. Hopefully P&G can last in perpetuity to boot. Resources are precious in midwest cities. People have brought up education. I recognize that need. However, the resources spent over the last decade on improving the core and attracting new residents and visitors was vital to retaining a core that can perhaps someday drive a lot of economic wealth building.

[westofyou]

Pre GPS days my brother in law and I got lost in downtown Detroit just as it was turning dark. There was no place we felt safe going in to and asking for directions. I am not to proud to admit I was pretty damn scared.

This has happened to me in Buffalo an Oakland, tis a drag

In country though I've had a different issue, once I slept in a police station because the one gas station in town did not open until 7 in morning and I needed gas to get home

[RedTruck]

Speaking of scary places to be. On my roadtrip to my vacation guess where my car broke down? None other than Flint Michigan.

Place, was like a film set for some apoclayptic dooms days movie. Abandoned houses left and right, homeless people huddled against a barrel of fire. Crazy that a city in america can look like something out of a 3rd world country

That said, I agree with the praise of Mr. Mallory. I think this city has grown in strides the past few years, and is really awakening the folks from the suburbs.

I look at the banks.

I look at the casino

I look at the refurbished Washington Park

I look at the planned street car

I look at 3CDC and all the work they have been doing in OTR, and other parts of Cincinnati

Alot of things are happening, and just hope this momentum carries us forward into a brighter age of development. Because, like all of you, I love this city. I might one day move to another city (like Toronto) and I might love it for all the things that it does better than cincinnati, but regardless of all that, my HEART will always be in the streets of Cincinnati, for better or for worse.