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Thread: Reds extend manager Dusty Baker's contract for 2 seasons, through 2014.

  1. #151
    Member mdccclxix's Avatar
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    Re: Reds extend manager Dusty Baker's contract for 2 seasons, through 2014.

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I had Stubbs, Heisey and Bailey getting a combined $5M in arbitration. I don't see them being moved because of raises. They will be getting very moderate raises. I simply used cots for the payroll, but I don't think the deferments are going to make much difference at all. The Reds may have a few million to spend. Enough to maybe get a poor starting caliber player or a quality bench player or two.
    Arroyo's only getting 6.5 next year, did you count it as 12 million? I think that's the main deferral.

    Here's my thinking on arb for those guys:

    Bailey = 4 million
    Heisey = 1 million
    Stubbs = 2 million
    Leake = 2 million

    Those are just guesses, but sort of guaged off the fact that Bailey, whose career bWAR was 0 before this season, got 2.4 million in his first arb year.

    I think now is the time to shed some of these valuable cost controlled players before they become too expensive. Unless the payroll is going up in the mid to high 90's.

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  3. #152
    I thought you'd be bigger OldXOhio's Avatar
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    Re: Reds extend manager Dusty Baker's contract for 2 seasons, through 2014.

    If youíre looking at this from outside, maybe youíre thinking what a bunch of morons Reds fans are. Especially if Outside is a burg like Pitts or KC or Seattle or Houston or. . .

    Wait, your team won 97 games last year, has won a division title two of the last three years, and you want to what? Fire the manager?

    Hahaha.

    Maybe the problem isnt with Dusty.
    Is the Reds current situation really a problem? Some might call it an opportunity.
    Originally Posted by nate
    Chapman can be downright pornographic at times.

  4. #153
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
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    Re: Reds extend manager Dusty Baker's contract for 2 seasons, through 2014.

    Quote Originally Posted by Always Red View Post
    Could be that I'm just becoming a bitter old guy, but I find myself actually agreeing with Paul Daugherty more and more every day.
    It all depends on your point of view.

    The Seattle Mariners, between 2000 and 2003 won 91, 116, 93, and 93 games. They never won a World Series. Are you OK with that being the Cincinnati Reds for the next 3 years?

    The Oakland As, between 2000 and 2004 won 91, 102, 103, 96, and 91 games. Four times during that stretch, they were dumped in the divisional round 3-2. Are you OK with that being the Cincinnati Reds for the next 4 years?

    There's no right answer to that question. You might be perfectly fine having summer after summer of 90 or 100+ win teams to root for. I'm not. I want Championships. I want the World Series being played at GABP. I want parades at the end of seasons, not just at the beginning. I want a new Reds tradition for MY generation -- statues of players I rooted for out in front of the stadium.

    I don't want halfways, almosts, and good shots.
    Championships Matter.
    24 Years and Counting...

  5. #154
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: Reds extend manager Dusty Baker's contract for 2 seasons, through 2014.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    It all depends on your point of view.

    The Seattle Mariners, between 2000 and 2003 won 91, 116, 93, and 93 games. They never won a World Series. Are you OK with that being the Cincinnati Reds for the next 3 years?

    The Oakland As, between 2000 and 2004 won 91, 102, 103, 96, and 91 games. Four times during that stretch, they were dumped in the divisional round 3-2. Are you OK with that being the Cincinnati Reds for the next 4 years?

    There's no right answer to that question. You might be perfectly fine having summer after summer of 90 or 100+ win teams to root for. I'm not. I want Championships. I want the World Series being played at GABP. I want parades at the end of seasons, not just at the beginning. I want a new Reds tradition for MY generation -- statues of players I rooted for out in front of the stadium.

    I don't want halfways, almosts, and good shots.
    For myself, yes...I'd be perfectly fine with that being the Reds for the next several years. Win divisions, make the playoffs, let the chips fall where they may. That's what I'm looking for. If we get championships, icing on the cake for me.
    Chapman to the rotation!!!! Do it already!!!!

  6. #155
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Reds extend manager Dusty Baker's contract for 2 seasons, through 2014.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    It all depends on your point of view.

    The Seattle Mariners, between 2000 and 2003 won 91, 116, 93, and 93 games. They never won a World Series. Are you OK with that being the Cincinnati Reds for the next 3 years?

    The Oakland As, between 2000 and 2004 won 91, 102, 103, 96, and 91 games. Four times during that stretch, they were dumped in the divisional round 3-2. Are you OK with that being the Cincinnati Reds for the next 4 years?

    There's no right answer to that question. You might be perfectly fine having summer after summer of 90 or 100+ win teams to root for. I'm not. I want Championships. I want the World Series being played at GABP. I want parades at the end of seasons, not just at the beginning. I want a new Reds tradition for MY generation -- statues of players I rooted for out in front of the stadium.

    I don't want halfways, almosts, and good shots.
    Oh Lord.. I'm quoting Daughtery

    Our capacity to enjoy anything is kinda limited around here. I know weíve been bludgeoned with bad breaks. Does that mean we canít expect the best?

    I know weíre a conservative, buttoned-down hamlet. Weíre not good at self-love. But this is a very likeable team, with players you can relate to. Todd Frazier is as likeable as it gets. Whatís not to appreciate about R. Hanigan? Chapman is a carnival. And so on.

    Iím not getting paid by The Club. And Iím guilty, too, of the occasional Dusty-bash. But I donít let it consume me, to the point where I canít enjoy what Iím witnessing on the field.

    Lighten up, loosen up, donít let the good times roll right on by. They donít come íround all that often.

  7. #156
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
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    Re: Reds extend manager Dusty Baker's contract for 2 seasons, through 2014.

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Oh Lord.. I'm quoting Daughtery
    I'm amazed you even made it far enough to copy and paste.
    Championships Matter.
    24 Years and Counting...

  8. #157
    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: Reds extend manager Dusty Baker's contract for 2 seasons, through 2014.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    It all depends on your point of view.

    The Seattle Mariners, between 2000 and 2003 won 91, 116, 93, and 93 games. They never won a World Series. Are you OK with that being the Cincinnati Reds for the next 3 years?

    The Oakland As, between 2000 and 2004 won 91, 102, 103, 96, and 91 games. Four times during that stretch, they were dumped in the divisional round 3-2. Are you OK with that being the Cincinnati Reds for the next 4 years?

    There's no right answer to that question. You might be perfectly fine having summer after summer of 90 or 100+ win teams to root for. I'm not. I want Championships. I want the World Series being played at GABP. I want parades at the end of seasons, not just at the beginning. I want a new Reds tradition for MY generation -- statues of players I rooted for out in front of the stadium.

    I don't want halfways, almosts, and good shots.
    Simply put, once you get to the playoffs, it's pretty much out of the team's control. The odds of any team winning the WS in a given year is never greater than about 15%. There is no way around that, it's just simply how it works in baseball.

    I would take that stretch of regular season success any day. What happens after that is unpredictable. If the Reds do follow that trend, I will happy with what we get, and hope that we get lucky and catch fire in the playoffs. If they don't, oh well, not much to blame other than the baseball gods.

  9. #158
    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: Reds extend manager Dusty Baker's contract for 2 seasons, through 2014.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    It all depends on your point of view.

    The Seattle Mariners, between 2000 and 2003 won 91, 116, 93, and 93 games. They never won a World Series. Are you OK with that being the Cincinnati Reds for the next 3 years?

    The Oakland As, between 2000 and 2004 won 91, 102, 103, 96, and 91 games. Four times during that stretch, they were dumped in the divisional round 3-2. Are you OK with that being the Cincinnati Reds for the next 4 years?

    There's no right answer to that question. You might be perfectly fine having summer after summer of 90 or 100+ win teams to root for. I'm not. I want Championships. I want the World Series being played at GABP. I want parades at the end of seasons, not just at the beginning. I want a new Reds tradition for MY generation -- statues of players I rooted for out in front of the stadium.

    I don't want halfways, almosts, and good shots.
    You want an guarantee, and that doesn't exist, especially into today's crapshoot playoffs.

    Sparky and Torre couldn't win the big ones...until they did. Torre managed 15 years, with only one division championship, and got swept in the playoffs that year, before suddenly becoming a genius in New York.

    If you could guarantee me that not rehiring Dusty Baker, and hiring someone else instead would absolutely, positively result in a World's Championship, then I think everyone here would be on board with you. No one could hand pick one manager, employed or not right now, that could deliver on that.

    But you want to take a really good thing, better than we've had in 20 years, and gamble that you absolutely will make it better. In spite of this team doing much better than you (or I) thought it would do this past year.

    The only guarantee is that Dusty Baker is the same guy today and will be next year as he was yesterday. I'm happy with that, and tend to "believe" that there is not something inherent in his genetic makeup that keeps him from "winning the big one."

    Most here aren't happy with Baker, and now that he's back, it'll be back to the daily Dusty bashing. I get that. It's painful to read it everyday, but it is what it is.

    I'd rather improve the roster and give him better players to put in the lineup.
    Last edited by Always Red; 10-16-2012 at 12:44 PM.

  10. #159
    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: Reds extend manager Dusty Baker's contract for 2 seasons, through 2014.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    It all depends on your point of view.
    No, I'm pretty sure I'm becoming a bitter old guy.

  11. #160
    Member NJReds's Avatar
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    Re: Reds extend manager Dusty Baker's contract for 2 seasons, through 2014.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    It all depends on your point of view.
    The Seattle Mariners, between 2000 and 2003 won 91, 116, 93, and 93 games. They never won a World Series. Are you OK with that being the Cincinnati Reds for the next 3 years?
    Didn't they do that with Sweet Lou at the helm? Lou "outcoached" Leyland and LaRussa in 1990 ... was he just lucky?
    "The players make the manager, it's never the other way." - Sparky Anderson

  12. #161
    .377 in 1905 CySeymour's Avatar
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    Re: Reds extend manager Dusty Baker's contract for 2 seasons, through 2014.

    The probably fact is there really isn't anyone available who could do a better job then Dusty at this point. And if there is a better tactical manager, would the players respond? Would Price have returned for a new manager? Probably just as well to stick with Dusty and accept his flaws. With that, Jocketty needs to come up with fewer players for him to misuse.
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.

  13. #162
    The rest is drama. marcshoe's Avatar
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    Re: Reds extend manager Dusty Baker's contract for 2 seasons, through 2014.

    I hope Dusty's health allows him to serve out the contract, but I also hope that he doesn't push on to the point that it hurts his health.

  14. #163
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Reds extend manager Dusty Baker's contract for 2 seasons, through 2014.

    The weird thing is when it comes to football, I have always said give me a guy like Marty Schottenheimer who will at least get you to the playoffs even if he has a reputation of not being able to get you over the hump. I thought the Chargers made a huge mistake when they fired him and hired Norv Turner, who couldn't even guarantee you a playoff appearance.

    But with baseball, I dunno, it's just soul crushing to watch the team play 162 games, win at a near .600 clip, and then fail to advance in the playoffs. And if Walt were comfortable hiring somebody else, and I really do think he would be, I would trust him not to hire a Norv Turner.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

  15. #164
    Member VR's Avatar
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    Re: Reds extend manager Dusty Baker's contract for 2 seasons, through 2014.

    Based on this mindset, looks like Bob Brenly is the guy to bring in....as he's a genius that's actually won a World Series.
    Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand

  16. #165
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    Re: Reds extend manager Dusty Baker's contract for 2 seasons, through 2014.

    But with baseball, I dunno, it's just soul crushing to watch the team play 162 games, win at a near .600 clip, and then fail to advance in the playoffs.
    The regular season's the meal -- where you get your baseball nutrients. Playoffs are dessert.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini


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