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Thread: How much "FREE" money do the Reds have for the offseason?

  1. #1
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    How much "FREE" money do the Reds have for the offseason?

    Broxton I'm assuming is gone??
    Madson gone as well??
    Ryan Ludwick potentially gone??
    Scott Rolen gone?
    Miguel Ciaro gone?

    how much potential "spending" money do the reds have if all the free agents are not signed?

    Would this give the reds the potential to have enough money to sign Micheal Bourne for CF, and Melky Cabrera for the outfield?

    I would think Micheal Bourne will get a contract of roughly 5 years 50/60 million?
    Melky Cabrera will probably recieve a 1 year contract for 3/4 million

    Not sure if that leaves any pennies in the reds piggy bank though

    I assume
    Chapman resumes Madson closing role
    Hoover takes over Broxton role

    Have Didi Gregorious as a bench player, sign someone else on the cheap.

    Because, lets be honest- a outfield of Melky, Bourne, and Bruce is something that would truly be special-defensive, and offensive wise.
    Last edited by RedTruck; 10-18-2012 at 11:23 PM.

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  3. #2
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    Re: How much "FREE" money do the Reds have for the offseason?

    We don't really have any free money, most of the money coming off the books is going to go to guys who's contracts escalate next year and to our young guys heading into arbitration.

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    Re: How much "FREE" money do the Reds have for the offseason?

    Phillips - 10
    Arroyo - 6.5
    Votto - 17
    Madson - 2.5
    Cueto - 7.4
    Bruce - 7.5
    Chapman - 4.8
    Marshall - 4.5
    Bailey - Arb 2
    Masset - 3.1
    Ludwick - 0.5
    Bray - Arb 3
    Hanigan - 2.15
    Valdez - Arb 2
    Arredondo - 1.2
    Latos - Arb 1
    Stubbs - Arb 1
    Leake - Arb 1
    Heisey - 0.5
    Ondrusek - 0.5
    LeCure - 0.5
    Simon - 0.5
    Cozart - 0.5
    Mesoraco - 0.5
    Frazier - 0.5
    Hoover - 0.5
    Gregorius - 0.5

    71.65 (2012 payroll was $87M)

    Broxton made $4M in '12
    Last edited by dMaus14; 10-19-2012 at 01:39 AM.

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    Re: How much "FREE" money do the Reds have for the offseason?

    The Mat Latos arbitration is likely to get steep quick, Walt needs to explore signing him to a long term deal paying him early but buying out a couple years of his FA time and saving money in the long term.

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    Re: How much "FREE" money do the Reds have for the offseason?

    Quote Originally Posted by HometownHero View Post
    The Mat Latos arbitration is likely to get steep quick, Walt needs to explore signing him to a long term deal paying him early but buying out a couple years of his FA time and saving money in the long term.
    And Bailey too, if he can.
    What if this is as good as it gets?

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    Re: How much "FREE" money do the Reds have for the offseason?

    Hey all! First time poster so take it easy on me!

    These are the numbers I have scraped together and I'm not sure where the Reds are going to come up with any additional money..hope Bob will dig deep!

    Starters
    Arroyo - 7.666
    Cueto - 7.400
    Latos - Arb 1 (3.500?)
    Bailey - Arb 2 (4.500?)
    Leake - Arb 1 (2.000?)

    Relievers
    LeCure - 0.490
    Simon - Arb 1 (0.800?)
    Arredondo - 1.200
    Marshall - 4.500
    Masset - 3.100
    Hoover - 0.490
    Chapman - 4.708
    Madson - 2.500 (buyout)

    Infield
    Cozart - 0.490
    Frazier - 0.490
    Phillips - 10.000
    Votto - 19.000

    Catcher
    Hanigan - 2.150
    Mesoroco - 0.490

    Outfield
    Bruce - 7.541
    Heisey - Arb 1 (1.000?)
    Ludwick - 0.500 (buyout) or 13.000/2?
    Paul - Arb 1 (1.000?)

    Those numbers come out to almost 92MM

    Obviously the Arb numbers are a guess on my part..not sure how accurate those will be, but maybe we could strike for contracts with Latos and Bailey and back load them?

    Additionally, I only have 4 infielders and 4 outfielders listed so are the others in-house? If we don't resign Ludwick..now we are down to 3 (sorry..I'm not a big Stubbs fan although he may be a cheaper option through arbitration than what he would bring us in a trade).

    Any thoughts back to Pierre or Victorino? I also like Angel Pagan..not sure what his going rate as a FA will be though.

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    Re: How much "FREE" money do the Reds have for the offseason?

    Any thoughts back to Pierre or Victorino? I also like Angel Pagan..not sure what his going rate as a FA will be though.
    Welcome to our humble abode

    An thanks for doing the research btw, much appreciated.

    As for those players you mentioned. Pierre is decent, but is probably better fit as a off the bench type of player rather than a regular. His arm is shot, but still has good speed, and still can smack the ball on a regular basis.

    But, if somehow jocketty does pursue Pierre I'd prefer it to be in a platoon situation, since Pierre can't hit lefties.

    As for Victorino. He's overpriced, and is coming off an incredibly disappointing 2012. That said, he's an interesting name, albeit an overpriced one.

    I prefer the other idea's brought by other users. I know in the other reds section they continously talk about a potential trade for Eric Young Jr. (apperantly it was a player that jocketty was targeting during the trade dead line) and have him platoon with say like Coco Crisp .

    But so far the most realistic list I've seen for potential CF (to replace stubbs):

    Eric Young Jr.
    Juan Pierre
    Shane Victorino
    Dexter Fowler
    Gurrado Parra
    Coco Crisp

    and few others that i probably forget.

    The pickings are slim, and the demand for a top notch CF like Denard Span will probably require Billy Hamilton and than some.

    That said, any of the above will probably make a huge difference in the CF position compared to Stubby

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    Re: How much "FREE" money do the Reds have for the offseason?

    The Reds have committed 85 million for next year already including the raises due to Phillips, Arroyo, etc. Any major moves are likely to come via Free Agency or a bump in payroll.

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    Re: How much "FREE" money do the Reds have for the offseason?

    this.... and no thanks on Melky "PEDs" Cabera

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTruck View Post

    But so far the most realistic list I've seen for potential CF (to replace stubbs):

    Eric Young Jr.
    Juan Pierre
    Shane Victorino
    Dexter Fowler
    Gurrado Parra
    Coco Crisp

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    Re: How much "FREE" money do the Reds have for the offseason?

    For my own benefit I put this together last week - obviously it includes arbitration guesses and various assumptions (Homer extension, a Ludwick deal, that Chapman closes). Similar to the list above.


    Cueto 7.4
    Latos 3.2 (assuming arbitration)
    Leake 1.3 (assuming arbitration)
    Arroyo 12
    Bailey 6 (assuming new deal)


    Chapman 4.7
    Masset 3.1
    Hoover 0.5
    Ondrusek 0.5
    Marsall 4.5
    Lecure 0.5
    Bray 1 (assuming arbitration)


    Votto 19
    Phillips 10
    Cozart 0.5
    Frazier 0.5
    BENCH 1.5
    BENCH 1.5

    Bruce 7.5
    Stubbs 1.5 (assuming arbitration)
    Ludwick 5 (assuming new deal)
    Heisey 1.2 (assuming arbitration)
    Paul 0.5

    Hanigan 2.1
    Mesoraco 0.5

    Other - Madson buyout 2.5



    Total: 98.5

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    Re: How much "FREE" money do the Reds have for the offseason?

    Quote Originally Posted by muethibp View Post
    Bruce 7.5
    Stubbs 1.5 (assuming arbitration)
    Ludwick 5 (assuming new deal)
    Heisey 1.2 (assuming arbitration)
    Paul 0.5
    I think our numbers are similar...I just don't want to think about the Stubbs/Heisey arrangement for next year. I think you keep one or the other. I don't think Heisey will ever be more than a 4th OF. I think he provides great value as a PH/give a regular a rest kind of guy.

    Heisey (starter) .251/.308/.421 (.709)
    Heisey (sub) .294/.350/.517 (.867) (obviously a smaller sample size)

    Stubbs on the other hand just hasn't shown any consistency at the plate. I think his defense is above average and his speed is excellent, so he could be used in late innings for his defense...but I don't think that is worth the 1MM+ he gets through arbitration.

    I think the bigger question is what kind of value does the rest of the league give for Stubbs...do they look at his numbers or his potential? I think if you sign him for one more year and he has similar results to '12, then you are really going to have a hard time getting a return for him.

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    Re: How much "FREE" money do the Reds have for the offseason?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTruck View Post
    Broxton I'm assuming is gone??
    Madson gone as well??
    Ryan Ludwick potentially gone??
    Scott Rolen gone?
    Miguel Ciaro gone?

    how much potential "spending" money do the reds have if all the free agents are not signed?

    Would this give the reds the potential to have enough money to sign Micheal Bourne for CF, and Melky Cabrera for the outfield?

    I would think Micheal Bourne will get a contract of roughly 5 years 50/60 million?
    Melky Cabrera will probably recieve a 1 year contract for 3/4 million

    Not sure if that leaves any pennies in the reds piggy bank though

    I assume
    Chapman resumes Madson closing role
    Hoover takes over Broxton role

    Have Didi Gregorious as a bench player, sign someone else on the cheap.

    Because, lets be honest- a outfield of Melky, Bourne, and Bruce is something that would truly be special-defensive, and offensive wise.
    I have the feeling all of them will be gone and good riddance, Ludwick won't have a season anywhere close to what he had this year and he'll be looking for a Josh Willingham type deal. I don't want to see Micheal Bourn in Cincinnati when Billy Hamilton could be one year away from playing in CF. I have never been a fan of Melky nor do I want to see him in a Reds uniform. Paul can handle LF and Heisey could easily control CF if given the chance. Gregorious should spend next year in louisville and should not be on the bench at all that would be the role Cozart shifts into when Gregorious is ready to play at a big league level.
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    Re: How much "FREE" money do the Reds have for the offseason?

    Quote Originally Posted by subnuke78 View Post
    I think our numbers are similar...I just don't want to think about the Stubbs/Heisey arrangement for next year. I think you keep one or the other. I don't think Heisey will ever be more than a 4th OF. I think he provides great value as a PH/give a regular a rest kind of guy.

    Heisey (starter) .251/.308/.421 (.709)
    Heisey (sub) .294/.350/.517 (.867) (obviously a smaller sample size)

    Stubbs on the other hand just hasn't shown any consistency at the plate. I think his defense is above average and his speed is excellent, so he could be used in late innings for his defense...but I don't think that is worth the 1MM+ he gets through arbitration.

    I think the bigger question is what kind of value does the rest of the league give for Stubbs...do they look at his numbers or his potential? I think if you sign him for one more year and he has similar results to '12, then you are really going to have a hard time getting a return for him.
    The third fourth and fifth outfield spots are going to be filled by someone. I have Stubbs, Heisey, and Paul in there. If you want to put someone else in that spot, fine, but who? There are no realistic organizational candidates (I suppose you could call Frazier the LF but there's no organizational candidate to play 3B so that plugs one hole only to see another spring open). So then you're out in the market where you're either going to spend more than Heisey/Stubbs are set to make or end up with replacement level type production for the same cost as Heisey/Stubbs and likely without the high ceilings that Heisey/Stubbs still arguably have.

    So, because there are no other candidates and outside options don't save money and keeping the team intact provides for consistency and chemistry, I am fairly confident that Stubbs, Heisey, Bruce, and Paul are all on the opening day roster.

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    Re: How much "FREE" money do the Reds have for the offseason?

    Quote Originally Posted by muethibp View Post
    The third fourth and fifth outfield spots are going to be filled by someone. I have Stubbs, Heisey, and Paul in there. If you want to put someone else in that spot, fine, but who? There are no realistic organizational candidates (I suppose you could call Frazier the LF but there's no organizational candidate to play 3B so that plugs one hole only to see another spring open). So then you're out in the market where you're either going to spend more than Heisey/Stubbs are set to make or end up with replacement level type production for the same cost as Heisey/Stubbs and likely without the high ceilings that Heisey/Stubbs still arguably have.

    So, because there are no other candidates and outside options don't save money and keeping the team intact provides for consistency and chemistry, I am fairly confident that Stubbs, Heisey, Bruce, and Paul are all on the opening day roster.
    I agree with you but there is an organizational candidate for 3B, Henry Rodriguez, if he has an astounding spring training would give him a good shot at the 3B spot because he is a switch hitter.
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    Re: How much "FREE" money do the Reds have for the offseason?

    Quote Originally Posted by muethibp View Post
    So, because there are no other candidates and outside options don't save money and keeping the team intact provides for consistency and chemistry, I am fairly confident that Stubbs, Heisey, Bruce, and Paul are all on the opening day roster.
    The reason I don't like it is because we aren't solving our OBP issues. Maybe I'm being ridiculous for trying to "look for answers" because we did have 97 wins last year LOL, but I think if we are looking for a fix then the most glaring hole is the OBP. As good as Hamilton is, I'm not ready to say he's our CF come the All Star Break.

    If we could get Luddy back for 13MM/2 with a team option for the third year, then we can look for that fill. I like Angel Pagan, but I don't think we will be able to compete with the amount he will be offered, but maybe Dexter Fowler at around 4MM? Then we are aligned with Luddy, new CF, Bruce, Paul, Heisey. Like I said originally, Bob is going to have to dig a little deeper, but we have already increased our payroll about 30MM over the past six years...whats a few more!

    All that being said...you are probably right and no moves will be made..if I only had 100MM to play with!


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