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Thread: Coco Crisp Anyone?

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  1. #1
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    Coco Crisp Anyone?

    With Oakland acquiring Chris Young to play center next season, Crisp could be available in a deal. He will be in the second year of a two year deal with an option for 2014. He could make a decent stopgap in center till Hamilton is ready to take over.

    Do you think he is a better option in center and leading off than Stubbs?
    If you think small, you'll go nowhere in life.

  2. #2
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: Coco Crisp Anyone?

    Yes. I thought the Reds should have acquired him last year.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

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    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Coco Crisp Anyone?

    The Reds could stick Chris Heisey in center next year and do most of what Coco Crisp does but for cheaper. So that kind of acquisition seems redundant to me.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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    Member mattfeet's Avatar
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    Re: Coco Crisp Anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    The Reds could stick Chris Heisey in center next year and do most of what Coco Crisp does but for cheaper. So that kind of acquisition seems redundant to me.
    Can Chris Heisey SERIOUSLY sustain a .349 OBP* and steal 30+ bags? I think Crisp would be a HUGE upgrade for this team.


    *June - Sept 2012 for Crisp

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    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Coco Crisp Anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by mattfeet View Post
    Can Chris Heisey SERIOUSLY sustain a .349 OBP* and steal 30+ bags? I think Crisp would be a HUGE upgrade for this team.


    *June - Sept 2012 for Crisp
    I didn't realize doing it for half a year is "sustaining" it. Regardless, here is what the two players have sustained so far in their careers:

    Career wOBA:

    Crisp (.322)
    Heisey (.327)

    Obviously Heisey's sample is much smaller, but not radically different results. Crisp had a .324 wOBA this year, Heisey a .313. Plucking out half a year for Crisp is a radically misleading narrative.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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    Re: Coco Crisp Anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    I didn't realize doing it for half a year is "sustaining" it.

    Career wOBA:

    Crisp (.322)
    Heisey (.327)
    Even if they're even offensively, Crisp blows Heisey away on defense.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

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    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Coco Crisp Anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Even if they're even offensively, Crisp blows Heisey away on defense.
    WAR calculations beg to differ, which I realize you'll dismiss out of hand. Nonetheless, Crisp has been barely an average outfielder over the past four seasons.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Coco Crisp Anyone?

    I'm interested, but it depends on the cost.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Member 757690's Avatar
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    Re: Coco Crisp Anyone?

    Many A's fans thought he was the team MVP last season. He's a very strong defensive CF, who can get on base much better than any Reds current outfielder.

    The way the A's like to constantly get younger and cheaper, they'd probably take a package centered around Heisey.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  10. #10
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Coco Crisp Anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Many A's fans thought he was the team MVP last season. He's a very strong defensive CF, who can get on base much better than any Reds current outfielder.

    The way the A's like to constantly get younger and cheaper, they'd probably take a package centered around Heisey.
    OBP this year:

    Crisp .325, Heisey .315. Not much of a difference, really.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Coco Crisp Anyone?

    I'd be interested in Crisp if the price is right and if the A's would take some dead money back. The main reason he'd be an upgrade is his ability against RHP. The Reds really don't have many good alternatives at very many positions that can get on base against RHP. In 2012, in in 336 PAs against RHP, Crisp went .259/.337/.436/.774. in 2011, in 386 PA, it was .293/.335/.414/.749. The Reds don't have any CF candidates that can do that. I'd imagine those numbers would improve in GABP as opposed to Oakland. Throw in his defense and he'd be a nice upgrade.

    He's not my top choice, but he's better than anything on the roster.
    Last edited by mth123; 10-20-2012 at 10:30 PM.
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    Re: Coco Crisp Anyone?

    I would like to see Stubbs and Heisey both elsewhere next season. Both talented guys, but their on base and contact skills are quite poor.

    Heisey strikes out 23.8% of the time. He walks 5.8% of the time. Lifetime stats. Lifetime .315 OBP. 909 PAs.

    On another team, Heisey's power and hustle might fit well. The Reds need more contact, more OBP, and can live without whatever power is supplied by Heisey and Stubbs.

    Crisp is a contact hitter with a .329 OBP. He's a better fit than the current CFers, but not ideal and he makes a lot of money. Frankly, I doubt the Reds will sign him, kind of expensive. I think the Reds will go for someone cheaper like Eric Young as a starter and aggressively promote Billy Hamilton.

    When the Reds drafted the kid Winker this year, one of their scouting guys said that the organization can use more contact hitters. Boy, was he right.
    Last edited by Kc61; 10-21-2012 at 12:12 AM.

  13. #13
    The rest is drama. marcshoe's Avatar
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    Re: Coco Crisp Anyone?

    Beane says Crisp is sticking around. He would be a good fit, though. Go after Parra.


    Was that a haiku?

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    Re: Coco Crisp Anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by marcshoe View Post
    Beane says Crisp is sticking around. He would be a good fit, though. Go after Parra.


    Was that a haiku?
    Haiku ingenious or not, Parra would be an excellent stopgap centerfielder for this ballclub while we wait for Hamilton to develop. How about Leake for Parra and plug Cingrani/Chapman or Corcino into the number five starter spot? Arizona's fascination with Micah Owings suggests they fall for pitchers that hit. Re-sign Ludwick and Broxton and go to war?
    Last edited by Phhhl; 10-21-2012 at 02:42 AM.

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    Re: Coco Crisp Anyone?

    I don't believe Parra was a leadoff hitter for the Diamondbacks. For 7 million for one season, the Reds could afford Crisp. They would options if Hamilton isn't ready to go in 2014 by picking up Crisp's 2014 option.

    Make this a three-way deal where you send Stubbs elsewhere. Essentially you replace Stubbs with Crisp. You get your leadoff hitter while keeping your major league roster pretty much intact.
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