Turn Off Ads?
Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 55

Thread: Coco Crisp Anyone?

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Williamsport, PA
    Posts
    12,366

    Coco Crisp Anyone?

    With Oakland acquiring Chris Young to play center next season, Crisp could be available in a deal. He will be in the second year of a two year deal with an option for 2014. He could make a decent stopgap in center till Hamilton is ready to take over.

    Do you think he is a better option in center and leading off than Stubbs?
    If you think small, you'll go nowhere in life.

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #2
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Olathe, KS
    Posts
    13,794

    Re: Coco Crisp Anyone?

    Yes. I thought the Reds should have acquired him last year.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

  4. #3
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga.
    Posts
    10,568

    Re: Coco Crisp Anyone?

    The Reds could stick Chris Heisey in center next year and do most of what Coco Crisp does but for cheaper. So that kind of acquisition seems redundant to me.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  5. #4
    Member mattfeet's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    1,797

    Re: Coco Crisp Anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    The Reds could stick Chris Heisey in center next year and do most of what Coco Crisp does but for cheaper. So that kind of acquisition seems redundant to me.
    Can Chris Heisey SERIOUSLY sustain a .349 OBP* and steal 30+ bags? I think Crisp would be a HUGE upgrade for this team.


    *June - Sept 2012 for Crisp

  6. #5
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Guelph, ON
    Posts
    16,038

    Re: Coco Crisp Anyone?

    I'm interested, but it depends on the cost.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  7. #6
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga.
    Posts
    10,568

    Re: Coco Crisp Anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by mattfeet View Post
    Can Chris Heisey SERIOUSLY sustain a .349 OBP* and steal 30+ bags? I think Crisp would be a HUGE upgrade for this team.


    *June - Sept 2012 for Crisp
    I didn't realize doing it for half a year is "sustaining" it. Regardless, here is what the two players have sustained so far in their careers:

    Career wOBA:

    Crisp (.322)
    Heisey (.327)

    Obviously Heisey's sample is much smaller, but not radically different results. Crisp had a .324 wOBA this year, Heisey a .313. Plucking out half a year for Crisp is a radically misleading narrative.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  8. #7
    Member 757690's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Dayton
    Posts
    10,684

    Re: Coco Crisp Anyone?

    Many A's fans thought he was the team MVP last season. He's a very strong defensive CF, who can get on base much better than any Reds current outfielder.

    The way the A's like to constantly get younger and cheaper, they'd probably take a package centered around Heisey.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  9. #8
    Member 757690's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Dayton
    Posts
    10,684

    Re: Coco Crisp Anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    I didn't realize doing it for half a year is "sustaining" it.

    Career wOBA:

    Crisp (.322)
    Heisey (.327)
    Even if they're even offensively, Crisp blows Heisey away on defense.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  10. #9
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga.
    Posts
    10,568

    Re: Coco Crisp Anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Many A's fans thought he was the team MVP last season. He's a very strong defensive CF, who can get on base much better than any Reds current outfielder.

    The way the A's like to constantly get younger and cheaper, they'd probably take a package centered around Heisey.
    OBP this year:

    Crisp .325, Heisey .315. Not much of a difference, really.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  11. #10
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga.
    Posts
    10,568

    Re: Coco Crisp Anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Even if they're even offensively, Crisp blows Heisey away on defense.
    WAR calculations beg to differ, which I realize you'll dismiss out of hand. Nonetheless, Crisp has been barely an average outfielder over the past four seasons.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  12. #11
    Member 757690's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Dayton
    Posts
    10,684

    Re: Coco Crisp Anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    WAR calculations beg to differ, which I realize you'll dismiss out of hand. Nonetheless, Crisp has been barely an average outfielder over the past four seasons.
    Heisey's never been a starter, and most of his starts have been in LF. His numbers aren't going to be an accurate reflection of what he would do as an everyday CF.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  13. #12
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga.
    Posts
    10,568

    Re: Coco Crisp Anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Heisey's never been a starter, and most of his starts have been in LF. His numbers aren't going to be an accurate reflection of what he would do as an everyday CF.
    It's kind of a moot point because whether or not Heisey is as good a CF as Crisp or only close to as good, I don't think the minimal upgrade is worth paying $7 million a year and investing resources into acquiring him to begin with.

    I'd rather save the $7 million and prospects and run out a guy that is going to produce most of the same production offensively and defensively.

    I'm all for upgrading the position, but I don't see Crisp as much of one nor is it worth the cost of upgrading marginally.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  14. #13
    Member 757690's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Dayton
    Posts
    10,684

    Re: Coco Crisp Anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    It's kind of a moot point because whether or not Heisey is as good a CF as Crisp or only close to as good, I don't think the minimal upgrade is worth paying $7 million a year and investing resources into acquiring him to begin with.

    I'd rather save the $7 million and prospects and run out a guy that is going to produce most of the same production offensively and defensively.

    I'm all for upgrading the position, but I don't see Crisp as much of one nor is it worth the cost of upgrading marginally.
    I think as a starter in CF, Chris Heisey could be Willie Taveras bad, at least interns of overall production.

    He's really not a starter. He's been matched up smartly by Dusty to maximize his value. Start him everyday and he'll likely underproduced Stubbs offensively, and be below average defensively.

    I like him as a fourth outfielder, but never want to see him be the Reds starting center fielder.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  15. #14
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga.
    Posts
    10,568

    Re: Coco Crisp Anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    I think as a starter in CF, Chris Heisey could be Willie Taveras bad, at least interns of overall production.

    He's really not a starter. He's been matched up smartly by Dusty to maximize his value. Start him everyday and he'll likely underproduced Stubbs offensively, and be below average defensively.

    I like him as a fourth outfielder, but never want to see him be the Reds starting center fielder.
    The guy has over 900 plate appearances now. I think it's time to put to bed the notion that we'd see something less out of Heisey than we've already seen if that were the case.

    For the record, of his 900+ plate appearances, 650 of them have been against right-handed pitching. So he hasn't even really been utilized in a traditional platoon fashion as people suggest.

    There's no evidence to suggest that Heisey would be any different as a starter than he's been in his nearly 1,000 plate appearances thus far. At that point, talent level is talent level. There are no secrets. Teams already know who he is through scouting reports. We've already seen what we should expect of him. Starting Heisey might not be ideal, but it's a lot more ideal to start him for league minimum than paying someone $7 million to put up the same production. And thus far, that's all Crisp has done.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  16. #15
    Member 757690's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Dayton
    Posts
    10,684

    Re: Coco Crisp Anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    The guy has over 900 plate appearances now. I think it's time to put to bed the notion that we'd see something less out of Heisey than we've already seen if that were the case.

    For the record, of his 900+ plate appearances, 650 of them have been against right-handed pitching. So he hasn't even really been utilized in a traditional platoon fashion as people suggest.

    There's no evidence to suggest that Heisey would be any different as a starter than he's been in his nearly 1,000 plate appearances thus far. At that point, talent level is talent level. There are no secrets. Teams already know who he is through scouting reports. We've already seen what we should expect of him. Starting Heisey might not be ideal, but it's a lot more ideal to start him for league minimum than paying someone $7 million to put up the same production. And thus far, that's all Crisp has done.
    The reason why you need around 1000 AB's to know what a player's true skill level is because usually around then, he will have faced every type of pitcher, and every type of situation multiple times.

    Heisey has mostly played against fastball pitchers, because he struggles against most off-speed stuff, especially from RH pitching. Play him everyday, against everyone, and his numbers will likely plummet.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25