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Thread: Adding productive leadoff man is Reds' top priority

  1. #31
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    Re: Adding productive leadoff man is Reds' top priority

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    I'd just keep BP there for the whole season.

    Reds need a big bat, not another little one.
    I have been on board with acquiring Span in the off-season to bat lead-off and play LF or CF depending on who we trade and who else we pick up. Unless we pick up a big time bat in left field, which will be hard to do due to financial constraints, this probably puts BP back in the 4 hole or potentially Frazier.

    While BP isn't the best 4-hole option in baseball, he is solid and consistent, and has done a respectable job in the 4-hole previously. Also, if Frazier continues to perform like he did this year, he could easily take over the 4-hole and push BP up to number 2.

    Assuming we can find a cheap LF option to provide a steady but not great bat in the lineup .800 ops type. Acquiring Span would improve the lineup quite a bit. I just do not want the black hole that has been CF and lead-off to continue, and I feel BP's bat is more valuable elsewhere in the lineup.

    Now if we can pull of a trade for a young cheap clean-up type...I would be all on board, I just think a Span type move would add a lot as well.
    "Today was the byproduct of us thinking we can come back from anything." - Joey Votto after blowing a 10-1 lead and holding on for the 12-11 win on 8/25/2010.

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  3. #32
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Adding productive leadoff man is Reds' top priority

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC View Post
    Wow! I didn't know the Reds had, at one point earlier this year, talked with the Twins about Span

    http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/sc...pan-with-twins

    Another interesting article on Span (and the Twins)....

    http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_...stay-minnesota

    He's signed through 2014 (13:$4.75M, 14:$6.5M), with a club option for 2015 ($9M).

    The Twins have depth in the OF position within their system. They're hurting for starting pitching. What could we offer them that may be appealing to them?

    A deal like this would be great IMO. You've got him signed through 2014, which coincides with Hamilton's projected entrance. It fills a need, and buys you some time at no great cost. And if nothing else, could he be moved to LF?
    I agree that he's pretty much a perfect fit. The Twins are a long ways from winning, so Span's nice contract is an asset that they'd be smart to capitalize on. It seems there's a deal to be had there and given where we stand, knowing Dusty's inability/unwillingness to think outside the box with his lineups, I think it's a move Jocketty would make.

    I think it would take Cigrani/Corcino + another top 10 guy like Soto or LaMarre -- unless they wanted only pitching in which case I'm not sure who else it would be. The Reds have 4 really solid pitching prospects in Stephenson, Cigrani, Corcino and Travieso, but it doesn't seem like there's very much behind them. Lotzkar or Cisco maybe?

    I'd be curious to see what Doug thinks about that price though; not really sure how the Reds prospects are regarded.
    Last edited by RedsManRick; 10-27-2012 at 06:38 PM.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  4. #33
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: Adding productive leadoff man is Reds' top priority

    I'm a Dexter Fowler fan. I know, I know.......the Coors effect.

    But off the top of my head, I think he's a switch hitter and he's only 26 with his best years ahead of him. Increasing OBP too.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

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  5. #34
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: Adding productive leadoff man is Reds' top priority

    OK. I quit being lazy and pulled up his career numbers.

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...owlede01.shtml

    Switch hitter. 26 years old. (good memory by me)
    OBP of .389 last year (career high)
    Batting average of .300 last year (career high)
    Lead the league in triples back in 2010 and has had double figures in triples each of the last 4 years.

    Again, I know Coors inflates numbers, but he's only 26 and under control through 2016. His best years are ahead of him.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  6. #35
    Member Phhhl's Avatar
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    Re: Adding productive leadoff man is Reds' top priority

    Put me down in favor of Pagan on a two year deal. He had a nice season, but I don't see the Giants rolling the brinks truck up for him with a substantial prospect like Brown on the cusp. Additionally, I don't see other teams knocking down the door for him, either. Pagan is a good defender, especially in a cozy of like GABP. He is a smart player, who does not get caught stealing often, and has enough power to exploit GABP for 10-15 home runs over the course of a season. Investing in him gives the Reds leverage with Ludwick. If Ludwick doesn't sign for a reasonable deal, all they have to do is drop Phillips down in the order to compensate. Assuming Votto is going to return to his pre-injury form, a modest investment in a player like Pagan could really provide value at a number of spots in the lineup. While he might not offer the type of discipline an elite leadoff hitter might provide, I consider him at least equal to guys like Victorino and Crisp, and a substantial improvement over the Juan Pierre's of the world.

    If the Reds could sign a guy fitting Pagan's profile, they could live with either Ludwick or a platoon of Heisey/Paul in left field and be a much better offense in 2013. I would go with Victorino is a secondary target, and after that spend anything left on strengthening the bullpen.

    There are no ifs, ands or buts... when you are paying a guy the money Joey is going to be making in Cincinnati there is NO QUESTION about him returning to who he was before the knee injury or else you are screwed, rendering all other considerations irrelavent. To even bring it up as a possibility is the depths of pessimism.
    Last edited by Phhhl; 10-28-2012 at 02:29 AM.

  7. #36
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    Re: Adding productive leadoff man is Reds' top priority

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    I'm a Dexter Fowler fan. I know, I know.......the Coors effect.

    But off the top of my head, I think he's a switch hitter and he's only 26 with his best years ahead of him. Increasing OBP too.
    Ditto, if I wasn't so lazy, I could dig up a post from last off-season or early this season in which I suggested targeting him. He could probably be had for cheaper than Span as well, and provide as good/better numbers. Glad you brought him up because I had basically forgotten about him.

    And with that type of hitter, I don't think the Coors effect is a thing really.
    "Today was the byproduct of us thinking we can come back from anything." - Joey Votto after blowing a 10-1 lead and holding on for the 12-11 win on 8/25/2010.

  8. #37
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: Adding productive leadoff man is Reds' top priority

    The Twins were 66-96 and last place in a weak AL Central. On the surface, it seems like they're far from the playoffs, but I'm not entirely convinced they can't turn it around fast. Although their lineup's not great, it's not awful either. And their bullpen is somewhat respectable. But when Baker went down, so did their season.

    If they can get a decent rotation together, we might be talking about a winning team. What I'm getting at is that there's a decent chance they're not looking to rebuild just yet. Between Joe Benson and Aaron Hicks, they have some outfield depth they're excited about, which could make Span expendable.

    They announced that re-signing Baker to an incentive-laden deal is their top priority. I'm sure some high-ceiling starters looking to make a comeback would love to go to the Twin Cities because A.) Target Field is supposedly pitcher-friendly, and B.) they know there'll be plenty of opportunity. That means they could go into 2013 with this rotation:
    1. Baker
    2. Diamond
    3. free agent on a reasonable contract (e.g. Erik Bedard, Bartolo Colon, Brandon McCarthy, Carlos Zambrano, et al)
    4. Blackburn
    5. De Vries/Hermsen/Hernandez

    If they were to pull off a Span-for-Bailey (+ a prospect) deal, it would greatly improve their rotation and make room for Aaron Hicks. It makes a lot of sense for them. Does it make sense for the Reds? I don't know. But if the Reds think so, they need to make it happen.

  9. #38
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Adding productive leadoff man is Reds' top priority

    Quote Originally Posted by camisadelgolf View Post
    The Twins were 66-96 and last place in a weak AL Central. On the surface, it seems like they're far from the playoffs, but I'm not entirely convinced they can't turn it around fast. Although their lineup's not great, it's not awful either. And their bullpen is somewhat respectable. But when Baker went down, so did their season.

    If they can get a decent rotation together, we might be talking about a winning team. What I'm getting at is that there's a decent chance they're not looking to rebuild just yet. Between Joe Benson and Aaron Hicks, they have some outfield depth they're excited about, which could make Span expendable.

    They announced that re-signing Baker to an incentive-laden deal is their top priority. I'm sure some high-ceiling starters looking to make a comeback would love to go to the Twin Cities because A.) Target Field is supposedly pitcher-friendly, and B.) they know there'll be plenty of opportunity. That means they could go into 2013 with this rotation:
    1. Baker
    2. Diamond
    3. free agent on a reasonable contract (e.g. Erik Bedard, Bartolo Colon, Brandon McCarthy, Carlos Zambrano, et al)
    4. Blackburn
    5. De Vries/Hermsen/Hernandez

    If they were to pull off a Span-for-Bailey (+ a prospect) deal, it would greatly improve their rotation and make room for Aaron Hicks. It makes a lot of sense for them. Does it make sense for the Reds? I don't know. But if the Reds think so, they need to make it happen.
    If the Reds are dealing Bailey for Span, the Twins should be the ones throwing in the prospect IMO (and a pretty good prospect at that). Leake for Span seems more reasonable, and I'd still want an arm back to be a long reliever/6th starter type. Somebody like Hendricks, Duensing or Swarzak. I'd throw in a spare part if need be. Say Ondrusek.
    Last edited by mth123; 10-28-2012 at 07:17 AM.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

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  10. #39
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Adding productive leadoff man is Reds' top priority

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Leake for Span seems more reasonable, and I'd still want an arm back to be a long reliever/6th starter type. Somebody like Hendricks, Duensing or Swarzak. I'd throw in a spare part if need be. Say Ondrusek.
    Span is a pretty solid OFer who is now reaching his prime. If I was the Twins, you'd have to sweeten the pot more, other then a Leake/Ondrusek, to get me to bite.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

  11. #40
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Adding productive leadoff man is Reds' top priority

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC View Post
    Span is a pretty solid OFer who is now reaching his prime. If I was the Twins, you'd have to sweeten the pot more, other then a Leake/Ondrusek, to get me to bite.
    Then they can keep him. He's an improvement, but had 2 bad years prior to this year and doesn't really addess the Reds need against RHP. There are other options who are better fits if Homer is the price.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  12. #41
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Adding productive leadoff man is Reds' top priority

    Leake has basically very little trade value.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  13. #42
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Adding productive leadoff man is Reds' top priority

    I would not have imagined that anyone would make Travis Wood the cornerstone of a deal for an above average setup man, but that happened. I could see Leake being a part of a deal that meets a need if packaged with a prospect, or maybe one of our expendable relievers with a decent contract like Arredondo (crosses fingers).
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  14. #43
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Adding productive leadoff man is Reds' top priority

    How does everyone feel about Gerardo Parra? He could probably suit the lead off role at least against righties forcing Phillips to the two hole (or lower) against Phillips' kryptonite.

    The Dbacks seem intent upon trading an outfielder.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  15. #44
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Adding productive leadoff man is Reds' top priority

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    How does everyone feel about Gerardo Parra? He could probably suit the lead off role at least against righties forcing Phillips to the two hole (or lower) against Phillips' kryptonite.

    The Dbacks seem intent upon trading an outfielder.
    I like Parra, send 'em Leake and Arredondo.
    Can't win with 'em

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  16. #45
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Adding productive leadoff man is Reds' top priority

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    How does everyone feel about Gerardo Parra? He could probably suit the lead off role at least against righties forcing Phillips to the two hole (or lower) against Phillips' kryptonite.

    The Dbacks seem intent upon trading an outfielder.
    Love the idea. A Parra/Stubbs platoon would be pretty darned good IMO.

    Not sure how intent they still are though. They dealt Young and acquired a SS in Cliff Pennington. They were rumored to be interested in Didi. Not sure if the deal involving Young and Pennington kills the desire for Didi or to deal an OF.
    Last edited by mth123; 10-28-2012 at 07:39 PM.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS


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