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Thread: Reds have 6 Gold Glove finalists, most of any team

  1. #16
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    Re: Reds have 6 Gold Glove finalists, most of any team

    Darwin Barney was the right pick at 2nd he had 28 defensive run saved at the postion, Robinson Cano was 2nd at +15 tied with Alexi Casilla. BP was tied for 4th with Pedroia and Ackley at +11. So If you just take what Barney lead the majors by he would have still had the NL best in DRS and that's why he also won the 2012 Fielding Bible Award which is the most legit defensive award out there.

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  3. #17
    5.3 Posts Abv Replacement BluegrassRedleg's Avatar
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    Re: Reds have 6 Gold Glove finalists, most of any team

    I don't buy any such thing as a defensive run saved at the position. That's some phony-baloney number made up by stat-a-holics AND is dependent on situational variables that are impossible to accurately measure.

    Trust your eyes. There's nobody in this league on Phillips' level.
    Rounding third and heading for home...

  4. #18
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    Re: Reds have 6 Gold Glove finalists, most of any team

    Quote Originally Posted by BluegrassRedleg View Post
    I don't buy any such thing as a defensive run saved at the position. That's some phony-baloney number made up by stat-a-holics AND is dependent on situational variables that are impossible to accurately measure.

    Trust your eyes. There's nobody in this league on Phillips' level.
    Every single play is video reviewed to come up with DRS, its the best tool to use when judging defense.

  5. #19
    5.3 Posts Abv Replacement BluegrassRedleg's Avatar
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    Re: Reds have 6 Gold Glove finalists, most of any team

    Quote Originally Posted by HometownHero View Post
    Every single play is video reviewed to come up with DRS, its the best tool to use when judging defense.
    Doesn't take into account the opposing batter, pitcher, fielding alignment, conditions, etc., etc., etc. If your pitching staff is one of the best in baseball, there's going to be a helluva lot less opportunities to save runs. Like I said, I just don't buy that concept at all. Impossible to gauge.

    I used to have an Elias book that talked about debunking the myth of how many runs Ozzie Smith saved per year. People used to throw out outrageous numbers for him, and the best evidence they could ever find was about 15 runs a season. Even they stressed there was no way to validate that.
    Rounding third and heading for home...

  6. #20
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    Re: Reds have 6 Gold Glove finalists, most of any team

    Quote Originally Posted by BluegrassRedleg View Post
    Doesn't take into account the opposing batter, pitcher, fielding alignment, conditions, etc., etc., etc. If your pitching staff is one of the best in baseball, there's going to be a helluva lot less opportunities to save runs. Like I said, I just don't buy that concept at all. Impossible to gauge.

    I used to have an Elias book that talked about debunking the myth of how many runs Ozzie Smith saved per year. People used to throw out outrageous numbers for him, and the best evidence they could ever find was about 15 runs a season. Even they stressed there was no way to validate that.
    They look at tons and tons of things....
    http://fieldingbible.com/Fielding-Bible-FAQ.asp

  7. #21
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    Re: Reds have 6 Gold Glove finalists, most of any team

    I thought Michael Bourne was the best CF I saw this season. McCutchen winning it seems a little odd.
    Zero chance the Reds miss the playoffs!

  8. #22
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    Re: Reds have 6 Gold Glove finalists, most of any team

    Quote Originally Posted by BluegrassRedleg View Post
    I don't buy any such thing as a defensive run saved at the position. That's some phony-baloney number made up by stat-a-holics AND is dependent on situational variables that are impossible to accurately measure.
    Trust your eyes...
    Thank you BGRL. All the numbers currently in baseball can serve a purpose (other than stealing from the beauty of the game), but they are not the end all be all of player measurement.

    BP drives me nuts with his showboating and wreckless disregard for fundamentals but he makes every play he supposed to make along with many, many plays that no other 2B in the NL (probably MLB) is able to make at all.

  9. #23
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    Re: Reds have 6 Gold Glove finalists, most of any team

    Quote Originally Posted by TSJ55 View Post
    Thank you BGRL. All the numbers currently in baseball can serve a purpose (other than stealing from the beauty of the game), but they are not the end all be all of player measurement.

    BP drives me nuts with his showboating and wreckless disregard for fundamentals but he makes every play he supposed to make along with many, many plays that no other 2B in the NL (probably MLB) is able to make at all.
    This. I believe 75% of those "bare-handed" plays he made were probably unnecessary. I kept waiting for him to screw one up and listen to all the uproar, but, to his credit, it never happened (that I remember). I wonder how much all this cost him with the voters?

    With that said, most of us Reds fans see "his game" more often than most and appreciate his amazing ability. To me , there's none better.

  10. #24
    Member smixsell's Avatar
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    Re: Reds have 6 Gold Glove finalists, most of any team

    There is simply NO WAY Darwin Barney is as good a second baseman as BP.

    In this case the advanced stats are simply wrong.

    PS I see they use computer analysis of camera footage to calculate the runs saved stat. There must be a difference in camera angles between the footage of DB and the footage of BP that is fooling the computer.

  11. #25
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    Re: Reds have 6 Gold Glove finalists, most of any team

    If Darwin Barney played for us and BP was a Cubs player and he won the GG over the 2012 season of Barney this place would have exploded with anger.

  12. #26
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    Re: Reds have 6 Gold Glove finalists, most of any team

    Zero chance the Reds miss the playoffs!

  13. #27
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    Re: Reds have 6 Gold Glove finalists, most of any team

    We have the best defensive team. I will take that.
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  14. #28
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    Ok folks.....he had a 144 game errorless streak....broke the all-time record by 25 games? You've seen the Cubs infielders on their horrible infield. Their infield surface is awful and easily one of the worst in baseball.

    As for his range? I don't know how to post the link and the pic is bad....but you see the blurb out by the RF line....it's Barney after a catch in which he started one the edge of the dirt, slightly shaded towards 2nd and he took 17 strides to catch (Willie Mays famous catch was 21)

    Name:  ImageUploadedByTapatalk1351735223.502232.jpg
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  15. #29
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    Re: Reds have 6 Gold Glove finalists, most of any team

    Phillips is starting to decline, he's still one of the best defenders at 2nd, but it can't last forever.

  16. #30
    Member Ironman92's Avatar
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    Phillips is still great, does have great range and really has no weaknesses (does choose the o'lay play a good bit on balls to his right instead of centering the body)....but he makes the great plays as often as anyone. He could've won this year, but Barney had only 2 errors all season on the worst surface. Phillips has won 3....should win a couple more, but it's hard to go against nearly perfect especially when the numbers say his range is just as good.

    BP is the Jim Edmonds of 2nd base....great great talent, legitimate highlight reel plays and a good portion of self-made highlight plays.


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