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Thread: Free Agents Frenzy Starts here

  1. #151
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Free Agents Frenzy Starts here

    Quote Originally Posted by Gallen5862 View Post
    Should the Reds consider claiming Volstad?
    Nah.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

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  3. #152
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    Re: Free Agents Frenzy Starts here

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    As I said. Reds fans tend to undervalue our prospects and overvalue everyone else's.
    x2 I think you have this backwards.

    People around here go up in arms about guys that are throw-ins to deals (ie Josh Roenicke, Donnie Joseph, JC Sulbaran) and have an absolute fit if we consider trading an actual prospect (Zach Stewart), unless it's an asset like Latos coming back.

    Look at the reaction to the Rolen and Broxton trades. Some people wouldn't trade Billy Hamilton for anyone. Guess what? Myers is a better prospect than Hamilton.
    Go BLUE!!!

  4. #153
    Member Spitball's Avatar
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    Re: Free Agents Frenzy Starts here

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    x2 I think you have this backwards.

    People around here go up in arms about guys that are throw-ins to deals (ie Josh Roenicke, Donnie Joseph, JC Sulbaran) and have an absolute fit if we consider trading an actual prospect (Zach Stewart), unless it's an asset like Latos coming back.

    Look at the reaction to the Rolen and Broxton trades. Some people wouldn't trade Billy Hamilton for anyone. Guess what? Myers is a better prospect than Hamilton.
    Exactly. Most fans overvalue their hometeam's prospects. Myers is a better prospect than anyone in the Reds' system, and I base that on independant and unbiased rankings like the one below.

    http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/prospects/watch/y2012/
    "I am your child from the future. I'm sorry I didn't tell you this earlier." - Dylan Easton

  5. #154
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: Free Agents Frenzy Starts here

    Yet over half our 25 man roster is filled with homegrown drafted and developed talent.

    The Reds farm system is doing a great job. I wouldn't be so quick to give on talent that could fill a need. I have no problem in trading guys who are blocked, such as Didi.

    Arroyo will be gone after 2013. Cingrani or Corcino will be needed.

    And plenty of guys who lit up the minors failed in the majors.

    It just seems that many are saying it's engraved in stone that Myers will be a star.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  6. #155
    Member Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    Yet over half our 25 man roster is filled with homegrown drafted and developed talent.

    The Reds farm system is doing a great job. I wouldn't be so quick to give on talent that could fill a need. I have no problem in trading guys who are blocked, such as Didi.

    Arroyo will be gone after 2013. Cingrani or Corcino will be needed.

    And plenty of guys who lit up the minors failed in the majors.

    It just seems that many are saying it's engraved in stone that Myers will be a star.
    Yet the fact that he might not be one doesn't mean that he can't be one, and the possibility that he might be a star is what you're actually paying for.
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.

  7. #156
    Member Spitball's Avatar
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    Re: Free Agents Frenzy Starts here

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    It just seems that many are saying it's engraved in stone that Myers will be a star.
    No, that is not what many are saying. We are saying that Myers is projected as having a very good chance of being a successful major leaguer based on minor league statistics and unbiased projections by national experts. Although I respect your opinion, I do not think your evaluation of the Reds' prospects is unbiased.
    "I am your child from the future. I'm sorry I didn't tell you this earlier." - Dylan Easton

  8. #157
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: Free Agents Frenzy Starts here

    Quote Originally Posted by Spitball View Post
    No, that is not what many are saying. We are saying that Myers is projected as having a very good chance of being a successful major leaguer based on minor league statistics and unbiased projections by national experts. Although I respect your opinion, I do not think your evaluation of the Reds' prospects is unbiased.
    I guess I find this message board inconsistent.

    Last season, me and someone else said the Reds should go after Adam Eaton as a leadoff guy. Eaton pretty much had a solid minor league career with a consistently good batting average and OBP. The naysayers said he was hitting in the PCL, a hitter's league, and that his numbers were inflated.

    And again, I'd take Myers in a heartbeat. But the proposals I've seen are overpayment.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  9. #158
    High five! nate's Avatar
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    Re: Free Agents Frenzy Starts here

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    I guess I find this message board inconsistent.
    Why would you expect consistency from a group of individuals each with their own opinion?

    To me, that would be pretty boring.

    But the threads would be shorter!

    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

  10. #159
    Two-Time Batting Champ Edd Roush's Avatar
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    Re: Free Agents Frenzy Starts here

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    I guess I find this message board inconsistent.

    Last season, me and someone else said the Reds should go after Adam Eaton as a leadoff guy. Eaton pretty much had a solid minor league career with a consistently good batting average and OBP. The naysayers said he was hitting in the PCL, a hitter's league, and that his numbers were inflated.

    And again, I'd take Myers in a heartbeat. But the proposals I've seen are overpayment.
    I can't speak of the whole board, but you are right in saying that I personally view Adam Eaton and Wil Myers differently, but it is not due to inconsistency at all.

    First, Wil Myers has a much better pedigree/scouting profile than Adam Eaton. Wil was a third round pick out of high school, while Adam came from an unheralded program in the 19th round.

    Second, while the career slash lines of Adam Eaton and Wil Myers are similar, you have to remember that Eaton was roughly three years older per stop than Myers. That makes a major difference.

    Also, the unbiased prospect experts may be wrong occasionally, but they have way more access to inside information than you or I. The fact that they have Wil Myers ranked as a top 30 prospect in the game before this year and then he tore it up this year, means he is likely a top 10 prospect in the game again. Eaton has never been ranked on a major publication's prospect list.

    The question to me about Myers is not if he will hit, but when. The Reds are built to win today. Can he have a Kearns/Dunn like rookie year and OPS 900+ his rookie year or will it take a few years like Jay Bruce? The Reds need immediate results. That is why I would offer any package first for Stanton before Myers, but they both fill the same hole and allow the Reds the payroll flexibility to fill in the bullpen and maybe improve the leadoff spot.

  11. #160
    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: Free Agents Frenzy Starts here

    I was one who wanted Eaton but as a diffrrent player than Myers, Eatons entire value rests on obp
    He will never have Myers power. Plus Eaton has a wide split which
    Wasnt ideal. Myers is vastly better. Eaton, I believed last year might have
    Helped in leadoff but once Lud began raking there was no place for him. At the
    Time I wanted Eaton Ryan was still scuffling. I would take
    Myers over Lud in a heartbeat tho. Cost and future upside
    Are all on Myers side. As a top ten MLB prospect I dont view these proposals as overpay at all.

  12. #161
    Member MikeThierry's Avatar
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    Re: Free Agents Frenzy Starts here

    Question to everyone. What is a good indication that a prospect will be likely to succeed? Is it a low strikeout rate like Oscar Taveras has (11% I believe) or is it a guy that has a ton of power like Myers does? Is there any one stat I can look at and say "this guy is going to be great"? What is something that translates to the MLB level?
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  13. #162
    Member MikeThierry's Avatar
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    Re: Free Agents Frenzy Starts here

    Wait, his name isn't Oscar Taveras, it's Minor League Guy

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31751_16...er-with-names/
    “Our next home stand follows this road trip.”

    “I just want to tell everyone Happy Easter and Happy Hanukkah.” says on the day before Easter

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  14. #163
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: Free Agents Frenzy Starts here

    Quote Originally Posted by RedlegJake View Post
    I was one who wanted Eaton but as a diffrrent player than Myers, Eatons entire value rests on obp
    He will never have Myers power. Plus Eaton has a wide split which
    Wasnt ideal. Myers is vastly better. Eaton, I believed last year might have
    Helped in leadoff but once Lud began raking there was no place for him. At the
    Time I wanted Eaton Ryan was still scuffling. I would take
    Myers over Lud in a heartbeat tho. Cost and future upside
    Are all on Myers side. As a top ten MLB prospect I dont view these proposals as overpay at all.
    Apples to Oranges.

    I was interested in Eaton as a replacement for Stubbs. High OBP and good batting average. Totally different than Myers.

    Myers would be a cleanup-type hitter, and plant himself in LF. We haven't had a solution for LF or cleanup yet.

    If everyone is so certain Myers will be a stud, then.....
    ....... Considering Reds management wants Chapman in the rotation, one of either Leake or Bailey gets supplanted.
    ........I'd rather they take Leake, but with Bailey's strong season, and especially is very strong impressive finish, I think Bailey would be the most doable, having raised his value tremendously.

    And I don't see why you'd have to trade anything with him. You're trading a solid, improving major league starting pitcher, still somewhat under control, still young, for a top prospect.

    Bailey for Myers.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  15. #164
    Two-Time Batting Champ Edd Roush's Avatar
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    Re: Free Agents Frenzy Starts here

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    Apples to Oranges.

    I was interested in Eaton as a replacement for Stubbs. High OBP and good batting average. Totally different than Myers.

    Myers would be a cleanup-type hitter, and plant himself in LF. We haven't had a solution for LF or cleanup yet.

    If everyone is so certain Myers will be a stud, then.....
    ....... Considering Reds management wants Chapman in the rotation, one of either Leake or Bailey gets supplanted.
    ........I'd rather they take Leake, but with Bailey's strong season, and especially is very strong impressive finish, I think Bailey would be the most doable, having raised his value tremendously.

    And I don't see why you'd have to trade anything with him. You're trading a solid, improving major league starting pitcher, still somewhat under control, still young, for a top prospect.

    Bailey for Myers.
    If you are trying to win now, why are you dealing your third best starter? Even then, Bailey is not that interesting to the Royals because he is under team control for only two more years and is going to be much more expensive those two years than Leake will. Leake is under control for three years and will be cheaper. Plus, Corcino may be able to step into their rotation sometime during 2013 and Lotzkar is there for depth as well. Corcino, Lotzkar and Leake is the kind of package that the Royals would be looking for because it is major league ready pitching and more of it than just Bailey. The Reds would be trading from a pitching surplus to fill a major hole with a high upside talent for a very low $ cost. Seems like a great deal for both sides.

    Bailey just isn't what the Royals are likely looking for.

  16. #165
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: Free Agents Frenzy Starts here

    Quote Originally Posted by Edd Roush View Post
    If you are trying to win now, why are you dealing your third best starter? Even then, Bailey is not that interesting to the Royals because he is under team control for only two more years and is going to be much more expensive those two years than Leake will. Leake is under control for three years and will be cheaper. Plus, Corcino may be able to step into their rotation sometime during 2013 and Lotzkar is there for depth as well. Corcino, Lotzkar and Leake is the kind of package that the Royals would be looking for because it is major league ready pitching and more of it than just Bailey. The Reds would be trading from a pitching surplus to fill a major hole with a high upside talent for a very low $ cost. Seems like a great deal for both sides.

    Bailey just isn't what the Royals are likely looking for.
    And Arroyo has to be replaced after next season and you've just traded away his potential replacements. And inexpensive has to be considered since it's the Reds.

    If Bailey is our third best starter, and Leake might be the odd man out if Chapman were moved to the rotation, why would KC want Leake over Bailey? makes no sense to me.

    Bailey trending upwards. Leake had a season trending downwards.

    Sure, give them Leake instead. If they are that stupid, let them be.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread


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