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Thread: Please tell me the Reds aren't keeping Aroldis at closer...

  1. #16
    Member Superdude's Avatar
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    Re: Please tell me the Reds aren't keeping Aroldis at closer...

    Is there news that I missed?

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    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Please tell me the Reds aren't keeping Aroldis at closer...

    Theoretically I'd like him to start. Yet I'm not sure what the best way to stretch him out is. Is it starting him in the pen and working him in increasingly longer stints? Is it putting him straight in the rotation and then shutting him down when he hits his innings target? Could they skip every other start for him (e.g. have him start every 10th game) and use him out o the pen in between?

    I suspect there is no universal correct answer in these situations. The art is figuring out what works for Chapman.

    And I won't be wounded if the decision is to keep him as the closer. Maybe that's the team being overly cautious/conservative, but maybe it's the right call. I'd hate to see him lose a season like Netali Feliz did.
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    RZ Chamber of Commerce Unassisted's Avatar
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    Re: Please tell me the Reds aren't keeping Aroldis at closer...

    Quote Originally Posted by Superdude View Post
    Is there news that I missed?
    Madson declining his option makes it more likely that Chapman stays at closer.
    /r/reds

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    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
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    Re: Please tell me the Reds aren't keeping Aroldis at closer...

    Quote Originally Posted by Unassisted View Post
    Madson declining his option makes it more likely that Chapman stays at closer.
    I don't think there was any way, even if Madsen and the Reds worked something out, that they'd go into spring training counting on a guy to be their closer who hadn't thrown a competitive pitch in over 16 months.
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    Re: Please tell me the Reds aren't keeping Aroldis at closer...

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    They got him some leads last year, no? This isn't Aroldis on the 2004 Reds.
    Not so much in the postseason. He was pretty much a non-factor.

  7. #21
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    Re: Please tell me the Reds aren't keeping Aroldis at closer...

    Not to repeat what was on another thread, but I am surprised Madson would decline the option for this year when he ought to take the season to simply prove he is healthy. I find it hard to imagine any team will snag him as a closer until he has pitched three or four months worth of games to prove he can do it. Besides, with TJ surgery, velocity may take a couple years to return.

    I think Aroldis needs to start. It may mean the end of the 100 mph pitch circus atmosphere, but if Chapman can throw 96-98 mph fastballs and can improve his slider and add an average change, he could be a legitimate TOR ace for the next few years.
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    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Please tell me the Reds aren't keeping Aroldis at closer...

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I don't get the mindset of those who want to keep him as a closer. I really don't. Would you have have Justin Verlander or Craig Kimbrel? That is a no brainer. The Reds potentially have a Verlander but they are using him like Kimbrel. Both are quite valuable, but one is a whole lot more valuable than the other.
    One is also a whole lot more likely to happen. The other is a guess.

  9. #23
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    Re: Please tell me the Reds aren't keeping Aroldis at closer...

    Quote Originally Posted by puca View Post
    Not so much in the postseason. He was pretty much a non-factor.
    5 game samples are difficult to project.

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    Re: Please tell me the Reds aren't keeping Aroldis at closer...

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    No, but if you have the opportunity to add a TOR arm to the staff, you take it. Every time.

    What's the worst case scenario? He bombs out and goes back to the pen. It's not like starting is going to make him forget how to throw a fastball really hard, which is basically all he did as a closer.
    Daniel Bard couldn't remember.

    Let's not act like a failure as a starter would have zero effect on his ability to return as a closer. The guy seems to have a somewhat fragile psyche and all bets are off as closer once he gets moved out of that role.

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    Re: Please tell me the Reds aren't keeping Aroldis at closer...

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeS21 View Post
    I think Aroldis needs to start. It may mean the end of the 100 mph pitch circus atmosphere, but if Chapman can throw 96-98 mph fastballs and can improve his slider and add an average change, he could be a legitimate TOR ace for the next few years.
    If, if, if....

    If you're trying to persuade me, try again.
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    Re: Please tell me the Reds aren't keeping Aroldis at closer...

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I don't get the mindset of those who want to keep him as a closer. I really don't. Would you have have Justin Verlander or Craig Kimbrel? That is a no brainer. The Reds potentially have a Verlander but they are using him like Kimbrel. Both are quite valuable, but one is a whole lot more valuable than the other.
    I'm agnostic on how they use Chapman. To me, it depends on the overall picture of the pitching staff. Where the need is. Where the strength is. How the Reds' internal people view Aroldis and his abilities.

    But the mindset of keeping him as closer is simple. His success is mostly with one outstanding pitch. He is now proven as a closer. Despite his velocity, his ability to be effective over seven or eight innings is unclear.

    So the Reds may not want to risk a switch in Aroldis' role. They may prefer to use him to fill the important closer's spot, where he is proven. This is not a building team, it is a contender, they may want to leave well enough alone.

    This isn't only about individual potential. Sometimes it's about the team, it's current situation, other available personnel, avoiding risks that might set the team back.

    Again, I could go either way. But it's not frivolous for someone to want Aroldis to remain as closer.
    Last edited by Kc61; 11-01-2012 at 01:02 PM.

  13. #27
    We are the angry mob cincyinco's Avatar
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    Re: Please tell me the Reds aren't keeping Aroldis at closer...

    Anything to give Leake less starts.. He's a good back end pitcher, but I wonder where we would have been this year in the playoffs when Cueto went down, had we had another potential hammer in Chapman starting games.

    Chapman, Cueto, Latos is a top 3 I would salivate over. Homer and Arroyo in the back. Leake as insurance or trade bait with Cingrini being "close".
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    Re: Please tell me the Reds aren't keeping Aroldis at closer...

    Quote Originally Posted by Unassisted View Post
    Madson declining his option makes it more likely that Chapman stays at closer.
    I don't see how the Madson news changes anything. Everyone assumed that if the Reds re-signed Madson, it wasn't going to be by picking up the option anyhow. Even now that he's going to hit the market, the Reds could still wind up signing him again.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  15. #29
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    Re: Please tell me the Reds aren't keeping Aroldis at closer...

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    One is also a whole lot more likely to happen. The other is a guess.
    Sure, but we already know for a fact that he can be Kimbrel. Why settle for that when you could get more and if you can't, the odds are pretty strong he can go back to being a guy like Kimbrel? The only real downside is the injury thing and that is going to be there whether he starts or relieves.

  16. #30
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    Re: Please tell me the Reds aren't keeping Aroldis at closer...

    Quote Originally Posted by cincyinco View Post
    Anything to give Leake less starts.. He's a good back end pitcher, but I wonder where we would have been this year in the playoffs when Cueto went down, had we had another potential hammer in Chapman starting games.

    Chapman, Cueto, Latos is a top 3 I would salivate over. Homer and Arroyo in the back. Leake as insurance or trade bait with Cingrini being "close".
    If you're going to use one as trade bait, then it should be Bailey. But Leake, as you said, IS a very good back end pitcher. In fact, his ERA+ was better than 25 of the 29 other 5th starters in the majors last season. Secondly, Leake's option clock expires the first week of the season, so if he's only going to be "insurance" the Reds can only insure themselves once this season. Once he's called up, he can't be sent back down again without clearing waivers.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda


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