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Thread: Please tell me the Reds aren't keeping Aroldis at closer...

  1. #136
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Please tell me the Reds aren't keeping Aroldis at closer...

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    As far as depth goes, I think the team should non-tender Bray and Ondrusek, deal Arredondo, assume that Masset will spend the year on the DL and that Simon will revert to his Baltimore form. Marshall, Hoover, Lecure form a decent middle of the pen, but they need a couple more role players and a hammer IMO. With Chapman as the hammer, they could still be pretty good. I think Leake and Cingrani should be the role players and with Chapman in the rotation, a hammer still needs brought in. It may not be a Chapman elite level hammer, but a clear late inning presence needs to be added if Chapman s removed.
    While I agree with most of your thoughts on this thread, I think I would keep Arrendondo and Logan (at least until clear upgrades are found).

    IMO, you have a group of Simon/Logan/Arrendondo.. None of these guys are particularly expensive..You hope 1 or 2 of these guys pitches well enough to eat the innings when the Reds are behind, but close.. Honestly, I don't think we're going to find better guys off the waiver wire. Cingrani might be an upgrade to the least effective of the three, but there's no rush to make that decision.. let the season play out and see if a Cingrani callup will be beneficial or not.

    I do agree with the DFA of Bray.. That guy has serious health problems and is not reliable.

    We already have a shortage of bodies in the bullpen from Broxton's FA and Masset's health problems.. I'm not in a hurry to DFA or trade bullpen arms until we get a little more depth. IMO, we got very lucky last year with Hoover and Simon.. When I say luck, I mean the Reds did an outstanding job.. It's rare to be able to pick up two relievers like that in spring training and have them be effective IMO. I wouldn't count on being able to do that every year.. I've seen too many disasters from waiver wire pickup types..
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

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  3. #137
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: Please tell me the Reds aren't keeping Aroldis at closer...

    I don't really care one way or the other if Chapman starts or closes.

    It just seems like the rotation is set (top 3 of mlb) and bullpen was set (top 3 of mlb). Now they want to tinker with it. I'm fine with tinkering with it if there is a fallback plan. I hate for Chapman, his 2 pitch arsenal, and his occasional wildness, and lack of velocity, to not work out and they have to go with Corcino or Cingrani as the 5th starter and they turn out worse than whoever they trade off (guessing they trade Leake or Bailey if they want to start Chapman).
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

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  4. #138
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Please tell me the Reds aren't keeping Aroldis at closer...

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    Mark Davis.
    But I agree, it's not common.
    Gregg Olson is the guy who leapt to mind for me, but it's definitely out of style. I think K-Rod's wipeout slider made that the breaking pitch of preference among would-be closers. Even though they weren't curve-first pitchers, John Wetteland, Tom Gordon, Jeff Russell and Jeff Montgomery all threw pretty nasty hooks. I want to say Joe Table featured a curve, but it could have been a slider with a lot of downward bite.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

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  5. #139
    Member Superdude's Avatar
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    Re: Please tell me the Reds aren't keeping Aroldis at closer...

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    I don't really care one way or the other if Chapman starts or closes.

    It just seems like the rotation is set (top 3 of mlb) and bullpen was set (top 3 of mlb). Now they want to tinker with it. I'm fine with tinkering with it if there is a fallback plan. I hate for Chapman, his 2 pitch arsenal, and his occasional wildness, and lack of velocity, to not work out and they have to go with Corcino or Cingrani as the 5th starter and they turn out worse than whoever they trade off (guessing they trade Leake or Bailey if they want to start Chapman).
    I think they'll hang onto Leake regardless of how the Chapman situation plays out. It's one thing to presume the need for six starters, but Chapman to the rotation makes it a physical impossibility that we'll make it through the year with five starters.

  6. #140
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Please tell me the Reds aren't keeping Aroldis at closer...

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Gregg Olson is the guy who leapt to mind for me, but it's definitely out of style. I think K-Rod's wipeout slider made that the breaking pitch of preference among would-be closers. Even though they weren't curve-first pitchers, John Wetteland, Tom Gordon, Jeff Russell and Jeff Montgomery all threw pretty nasty hooks. I want to say Joe Table featured a curve, but it could have been a slider with a lot of downward bite.
    Man, that's an impressive memory.. Good examples.

    IIRC, Davis began his career as a mediocre starter in SF, despite his great curve because his other pitches weren't that great. He moved to the pen, and threw the curve almost exclusively and actually won a Cy Young from it.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  7. #141
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Please tell me the Reds aren't keeping Aroldis at closer...

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    While I agree with most of your thoughts on this thread, I think I would keep Arrendondo and Logan (at least until clear upgrades are found).

    IMO, you have a group of Simon/Logan/Arrendondo.. None of these guys are particularly expensive..You hope 1 or 2 of these guys pitches well enough to eat the innings when the Reds are behind, but close.. Honestly, I don't think we're going to find better guys off the waiver wire. Cingrani might be an upgrade to the least effective of the three, but there's no rush to make that decision.. let the season play out and see if a Cingrani callup will be beneficial or not.

    I do agree with the DFA of Bray.. That guy has serious health problems and is not reliable.

    We already have a shortage of bodies in the bullpen from Broxton's FA and Masset's health problems.. I'm not in a hurry to DFA or trade bullpen arms until we get a little more depth. IMO, we got very lucky last year with Hoover and Simon.. When I say luck, I mean the Reds did an outstanding job.. It's rare to be able to pick up two relievers like that in spring training and have them be effective IMO. I wouldn't count on being able to do that every year.. I've seen too many disasters from waiver wire pickup types..
    Well, I'm of the opinion that Ondrusek and Simon will experience a huge drop-off and I'd just as soon move them before 5+ ERA shows itself during Red's games. Those two are interchangebale parts IMO. They had really good years in 2012, but Simon is already 32 with a poor perfromance history and Ondrusek just doesn't do much. If these guys have any value, I'd cash it in. They are totally replaceable. Arredondo is better IMO and I like that he can be used as a psuedo-loogy, but I want a real lefty for that role and a late inning type as well. If Chapman starts, they'll need a long relief spot for Leake. I suppose keeping Arredondo in a mop-up role with potential for more would be OK, but if some team sees him as more than that and would give up something for him, I'd move him. I only see one spot for Arredondo/Ondrusek/Masset/Simon and even if they are all gone, its the most easily filled spot on the roster. Banking on all those guys filling spots in 2013 is a quick way to have a crummy bullpen IMO. I'd rather not have two of them to be honest. Time to look for next year's version of lightning in a bottle.

    My bullpen?

    New Guy (Closer)
    Marshall (LHSU)
    Hoover (RHSU)
    Lecure (RHMR)
    New Guy (LHMR - maybe Cingrani)
    Masset/Arredondo/Ondrusek/Simon (Mop-up)
    Leake (Swingman)
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS


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