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View Poll Results: Should the Reds try Aroldis Chapman as a starter?

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  • Yes, convert him now

    40 59.70%
  • No, he should remain a closer

    27 40.30%
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Thread: Time for the Chapman Poll

  1. #31
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    Re: Time for the Chapman Poll

    I wanted to start a thread about this the other day but it fits perfect right here....has anyone thought about using Chapman as a closer but expand that role a little? I see no reason why he cant be our closer but pitch a little more than just the 9th inning or last out of the 8th inning then the 9th......I would love to use him more as a 2 inning guy. I understand that he might not be able to pitch as much if you do this but as it stands right now we have a pretty good list of bullpen arms and if we can add 1 more solid pen guy and Masset can come in strong then I see no reason why Chapman and Broxton cannot be dual closers with Chapman getting the majority......I just think it would be so great to not follow the herd of other teams using their closer for the last 3 outs only.

    Think of it like this....Basically in a 3 game series like most are during the season....our starters only have to make it to the 6th inning...after that we have the option of using everyone except Broxton or Chapman for the 6th and 7th.....then in the 8th inning you bring your stud in, if he falters then you have a back up stud.....I cannot imagine many teams scoring more than the occasional run in the 8th or 9th inning if Chapman is pitching.....do the same with Broxton when Chapman needs a rest, or even Marshall......

    Chapman is to good to just use for 3 outs.....but I am not sure I want him starting either....Joe Torre said last year that one of his regrets with managing was not trying to go against the grain with the closers role....During Rivera's earlier years he would pitch the last 4-6 outs more than most closers.....but Torre said that he wished he would have done that more often and used him as a 6 out pitcher....especially against divisional opponents.....Torre claimed that history stopped him from trying it then he joked about the players union would kill him if he did that.....

    imagine the playoffs.....game 3, all Homer or Bronson or Latos has to do is get to the 6th inning and the rest sits in the hands of Marshall against lefties and Broxton against righties for the 6th and 7th with Masset helping out then you bring in the hammer in the 8th inning and all is good in Reds land......

    I know it sounds silly but I would love to see it happen and really cannot see a lot of downside to it.

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  3. #32
    For a Level Playing Field RedFanAlways1966's Avatar
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    Re: Time for the Chapman Poll

    I do not undervalue the importance of a good closer in the game. However, I do understand that throwing 100 or more innings (aka getting 300 or more outs for your team) is more important than getting the last 3 outs in 40 games (aka 120 outs for your team). I have been questioned on this matter in other Chapman threads saying that those last 3 outs are more important then outs 1-24. I do not agree. Every out is equally important. You do not need a closer if your team is behind all the time b/c the starters cannot get people out. Hence, the reason great starters get more $$$ than great closers (unless a stupid owner decides otherwise).
    Small market fan... always hoping, but never expecting.

  4. #33
    Member mdccclxix's Avatar
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    Re: Time for the Chapman Poll

    Consider he basically made the rotation last spring, then the injuries started piling up. They have to try again.

  5. #34
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Time for the Chapman Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Based on the 40 man roster at it stands today:

    CL: Alfredo Simon
    SU: Sean Marshall
    SU: J.J. Hoover
    MR: Sam LeCure
    MR: Nick Masset (assuming health)
    MR: Bill Bray (assuming health)
    LR: Jose Arredondo
    That is a ton of unproven bullpen arms and a couple of large assumptions.

    Not sure that this gives me any great comfort in using Chapman in the rotation.

  6. #35
    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: Time for the Chapman Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    That is a ton of unproven bullpen arms and a couple of large assumptions.

    Not sure that this gives me any great comfort in using Chapman in the rotation.
    Ya, not sure I'm in love with a bullpen penciling in Masset and Bray at this point.

  7. #36
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Time for the Chapman Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    That is a ton of unproven bullpen arms and a couple of large assumptions.

    Not sure that this gives me any great comfort in using Chapman in the rotation.
    It's a question of trade-offs, certainly. No, this group probably won't be best bullpen in baseball, but who thought the Orioles would have a great bullpen. Who thought the Giants would have a mediocre one?

    I agree that this bullpen doesn't inspire nearly as much confidence as one anchored by Chapman, but let's get in to the nitty gritty. Aside from the Masset/Bray injury concerns, who worries you and why? And more to the point, what is our benchmark? And of course, this assumes nobody from the outside is brought in. You can add guys like Tim Byrdak and Mark Lowe for next to nothing to those low leverage innings guys.

    I think loss aversion pays a big role here. Especially with the starter conversion being no sure thing (though presumably that would mean a return to the bullpen), it's easier for us to feel the "hurt" caused to the bullpen than the benefit to the rotation. And when we just generalities and narratives, it's makes all that much harder to the tradeoff/ROI "math".
    Last edited by RedsManRick; 11-02-2012 at 02:32 PM.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  8. #37
    Member mdccclxix's Avatar
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    Re: Time for the Chapman Poll

    If things went 90% of Chapman's ceiling, the Reds could have the best rotation in baseball 2013,14,15. You have to try.

  9. #38
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Time for the Chapman Poll

    I voted yes, but I only lean yes. I think the no argument is also fairly compelling.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  10. #39
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    Re: Time for the Chapman Poll

    I am still going for the chapman in the 8th and 9th.....Braxton doing the same role....they feed off each other. It's not pretty but it will win games and it will turn heads and teams will be pissed when its the 7th inning and the know they have 3 more outs before Chapman rolls onto the mound with dominance.
    Last edited by lidspinner; 11-02-2012 at 04:54 PM. Reason: Edit....this scenario could shorten the game from 9 innings to 6-7 max. That's huge


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