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Thread: The Bargain Basement

  1. #1
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    The Bargain Basement

    It’s only November 3, but we’ve seen lots of threads suggesting some big moves for the Reds this off-season. While I‘m as excited as anyone for Justin Upton, Michael Bourn, Shin Soo Choo, Matt Garza, Torii Hunter and others, the reality of the Reds situation is that they have probably spent most of this year's budget with extensions for Votto, Bruce, Cueto, Marshall, Masset, Hanigan, Phillips and Arroyo and looming arb cases for major guys like Latos and Bailey as well as guys who played significant roles like Leake, Stubbs and Heisey.

    As much as I’d like to see a big fish or two, the likelihood is that the Reds will be improving at the margins through targeted guys who fit needs but are more likely comeback bets, odd men out in their current situations or on the scrap heap. This thread is for your bargain basement suggestions. I’ll Start with a few:

    1. Wilson Betemit, 3B, Baltimore - Manny Machado has made Betemit excess baggage in Baltimore. While he’s no world beater, he does have a career OPS over .820 in over 1,700 PAs against RHP. He‘s a switch-hitter who could be used against LHP if need be, but his purpose is to hit against RHP. He’s not a great defender, but in addition to 3B, can still play SS in a pinch and has played a bit at 1B and LF. IF Scott Rolen decides he wants to come back in a part-time role, Betemit may be the perfect guy to share 3B with him. This would free Frazier to fill the hole created in LF by Ryan Ludwick’s free agency. Betemit is signed for around $1.5 Million for 2013 and should be available for spare parts.

    2. Roger Bernadina, CF, Washington - The Nat’s OF is already crowded with Michael Morse, Bryce Harper and Jayson Werth. Rumor has it that Michael Bourn is high on their list and Bernadina would seem to be on the fringe of the roster. Bernadina is first year arb eligible, but shouldn’t cost much since he’s always been a part-timer. He did put up a .758 OPS in 233 PAs against RHP in 2012 (.359 OBP). He can play CF and would be a pretty good option in a platoon with Stubbs or Heisey IMO.

    3. Luke Scott, LF/1B, FA - Scott has been through a pretty rough injury to his shoulder which has hurt his production. He did come back last season and his splits make him look like a guy for the Reds to try to get on the cheap. He had an .820 OPS in 249 PAs against RHP and, maybe more telling, his OPS in the second half was .845. He say’s that the shoulder is starting to feel a lot better as he gets farther from his surgery and I‘m guessing he‘s ripe for a rebound. He’s probably a part-timer, but if the Reds need to replace Ludwick by mixing and matching, Scott may be a good idea to play in LF against RHP much of the time. Perhaps in a weird platoon with Rolen where Frazier plays LF against LHP and 3B against RHP. He’d probably come cheap. Maybe even on a minor league deal.

    4. J. P. Howell, LHRP, FA - Howell had a decent bounce back season last year with 50+ innings with an ERA of 3.04, 7.5 K/9 and 3.9 BB/9. He missed 2010 and was pretty bad in 2011 due to injuries. The Reds bullpen depth was a strength in 2012, but Bullpen depth can quickly become Bullpen dreck and the team needs another lefty. He had some closing experience in 2009 and may be a good guy for the mix if the team moves Chapman to the rotation. Not sure he’s going to be the bargain I hope he will, but if he can be had for $2 Million or less, it would be a good move for the Reds.

    5. Grady Sizemore, OF, FA - Purely a scrap heap signing at this point. Lots of injuries may make him a non-factor, but maybe he’ll be this season’s Eric Chavez making key contributions in a part-time role. Better yet, maybe he’ll be Ron Gant circa 1995 or, well, Ryan Ludwick of 2012.

    Please add some names here or debate the ones I've thrown out, but somewhere among the big names, a thread discussing the scrap heap may be more in line with this year's actual news.
    Last edited by mth123; 11-04-2012 at 02:06 AM.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

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  3. #2
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    Re: The Bargain Basement

    I wouldn't mind giving Sizemore a one-year deal. He may bust, but then again he may do decent. Would get some females in the seats. (They apparently think he's cute.)

  4. #3
    Member Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    Re: The Bargain Basement

    Wouldn't mind Howell, or maybe Sizemore who could probably be at least what Heisey is, or could be an All Star CF if he bounces back.
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
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    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.

  5. #4
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: The Bargain Basement

    I'd take a flier on Sizemore.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

  6. #5
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    Re: The Bargain Basement

    And he's also a leadoff hitter, which the Reds need.

  7. #6
    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: The Bargain Basement

    Bernadina would be a perfect complement for Stubbs IMO.

    Trading assets for Spann or whatever doesn't make as much sense to me as getting a good platoon bat like Bernadina, and combined we could have a cheap and productive CF situation.

  8. #7
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    Re: The Bargain Basement

    Quote Originally Posted by cinreds21 View Post
    I wouldn't mind giving Sizemore a one-year deal. He may bust, but then again he may do decent. Would get some females in the seats. (They apparently think he's cute.)
    Saying "females think he's cute" is like code for "I' a dude and can recognize when another man is good looking, but I better not come right out and say it."


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    Re: The Bargain Basement

    How much do you think INF Mike Aviles would have been worth trading for?

    Cleveland got him along with Yan Gomes for pitcher Esmil Rogers from Toronto.

    I think Howell would be good and worth trying for .....more than keeping Bray.

  10. #9
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    Re: The Bargain Basement

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Its only November 3, but weve seen lots of threads suggesting some big moves for the Reds this off-season. While Im as excited as anyone for Justin Upton, Michael Bourn, Shin Soo Choo, Matt Garza, Torii Hunter and others, the reality of the Reds situation is that they have probably spent most of this year's budget with extensions for Votto, Bruce, Cueto, Marshall, Masset, Hanigan, Phillips and Arroyo and looming arb cases for major guys like Latos and Bailey as well as guys who played significant roles like Leake, Stubbs and Heisey.

    As much as Id like to see a big fish or two, the likelihood is that the Reds will be improving at the margins through targeted guys who fit needs but are more likely comeback bets, odd men out in their current situations or on the scrap heap. This thread is for your bargain basement suggestions. Ill Start with a few:

    1. Wilson Betemit, 3B, Baltimore - Manny Machado has made Betemit excess baggage in Baltimore. While hes no world beater, he does have a career OPS over .820 in over 1,700 PAs against RHP. Hes a switch-hitter who could be used against LHP if need be, but his purpose is to hit against RHP. Hes not a great defender, but in addition to 3B, can still play SS in a pinch and has played a bit at 1B and LF. IF Scott Rolen decides he wants to come back in a part-time role, Betemit may be the perfect guy to share 3B with him. This would free Frazier to fill the hole created in LF by Ryan Ludwicks free agency. Betemit is signed for around $1.5 Million for 2013 and should be available for spare parts.

    2. Roger Bernadina, CF, Washington - The Nats OF is already crowded with Michael Morse, Bryce Harper and Jayson Werth. Rumor has it that Michael Bourn is high on their list and Bernadina would seem to be on the fringe of the roster. Bernadina is first year arb eligible, but shouldnt cost much since hes always been a part-timer. He did put up a .758 OPS in 233 PAs against RHP in 2012 (.359 OBP). He can play CF and would be a pretty good option in a platoon with Stubbs or Heisey IMO.

    3. Luke Scott, LF/1B, FA - Scott has been through a pretty rough injury to his shoulder which has hurt his production. He did come back last season and his splits make him look like a guy for the Reds to try to get on the cheap. He had an .820 OPS in 249 PAs against RHP and, maybe more telling, his OPS in the second half was .845. He says that the shoulder is starting to feel a lot better as he gets farther from his surgery and Im guessing hes ripe for a rebound. Hes probably a part-timer, but if the Reds need to replace Ludwick by mixing and matching, Scott may be a good idea to play in LF against RHP much of the time. Perhaps in a weird platoon with Rolen where Frazier plays LF against LHP and 3B against RHP. Hed probably come cheap. Maybe even on a minor league deal.

    4. J. P. Howell, LHRP, FA - Howell had a decent bounce back season last year with 50+ innings with an ERA of 3.04, 7.5 K/9 and 3.9 BB/9. He missed 2010 and was pretty bad in 2011 due to injuries. The Reds bullpen depth was a strength in 2012, but Bullpen depth can quickly become Bullpen dreck and the team needs another lefty. He had some closing experience in 2009 and may be a good guy for the mix if the team moves Chapman to the rotation. Not sure hes going to be the bargain I hope he will, but if he can be had for $2 Million or less, it would be a good move for the Reds.

    5. Grady Sizemore, OF, FA - Purely a scrap heap signing at this point. Lots of injuries may make him a non-factor, but maybe hell be this seasons Eric Chavez making key contributions in a part-time role. Better yet, maybe hell be Ron Gant circa 1995 or, well, Ryan Ludwick of 2012.

    Please add some names here or debate the ones I've thrown out, but somewhere among the big names, a thread discussing the scrap heap may be more in line with this year's actual news.


    Would Leake for Bernadina fly? They can the try and trade Stubbs for a pitcher...granted it would be a classic #5 starter but who knows, someone may overpay.

  11. #10
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: The Bargain Basement

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Cloninger View Post
    Would Leake for Bernadina fly? They can the try and trade Stubbs for a pitcher...granted it would be a classic #5 starter but who knows, someone may overpay.
    I'd hope they could get him for less. I'm thinking more along the lines of Arredondo or Bray.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  12. #11
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    Re: The Bargain Basement

    I'd love Sizemore on a one-year, incentive-laden deal with a team option. Let him platoon with Stubbs until Hamilton is ready.
    Go BLUE!!!

  13. #12
    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: The Bargain Basement

    Can't believe it's been 4 years since Sizemore was an effective player. Hard to believe.

    He'd come cheap, and who knows. He'd only have to hit righties a bit to be a palatable fit for the roster. At the same times, odds are long that he contributes.

  14. #13
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: The Bargain Basement

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Cloninger View Post
    Would Leake for Bernadina fly? They can the try and trade Stubbs for a pitcher...granted it would be a classic #5 starter but who knows, someone may overpay.
    Bernadina has a career .252/.320/.373 batting line. His .370 OBP last year was largely the product of a .359 BABIP. And that's with the benefit of the platoon. I guess that's better than Drew Stubbs given how crappy he was last year, but I wouldn't trade much of value for him -- Arredondo maybe.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Re: The Bargain Basement

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Cloninger View Post
    Would Leake for Bernadina fly? They can the try and trade Stubbs for a pitcher...granted it would be a classic #5 starter but who knows, someone may overpay.
    Leake has more trade value than Bernadina. And Bernadina would likely be a platoon partner for Stubbs.

  16. #15
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: The Bargain Basement

    Why give up value for Bernadina when you already have Xavier Paul?


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