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Thread: Bill Bray and Wilson Valdez non-tendered

  1. #1
    Future Fame of Holler WildcatFan's Avatar
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    Bill Bray and Wilson Valdez non-tendered

    According to Lance McAlister:

    https://twitter.com/LanceMcAlister/s...45826398601218

    #Reds will non-tender Bill Bray. He was eligible for arbitration. He now becomes a free agent. I wish Bill the best and good health.
    "I never argue with people who say baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn't. And that's what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski

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  3. #2
    Beer is good!! George Anderson's Avatar
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    Re: Bill Bray non-tendered

    So who won "the trade".

    The can of worms is opened.
    "Boys, I'm one of those umpires that misses 'em every once in a while so if it's close, you'd better hit it." Cal Hubbard

  4. #3
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Bill Bray non-tendered

    I wonder if there's any chance he comes back with a minor league deal or if he's pretty much guaranteed a major league contract somewhere.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  5. #4
    Future Fame of Holler WildcatFan's Avatar
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    Re: Bill Bray non-tendered

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    I wonder if there's any chance he comes back with a minor league deal or if he's pretty much guaranteed a major league contract somewhere.
    He'll get a big league job somewhere. Lefty with recent success.
    "I never argue with people who say baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn't. And that's what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski

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    Re: Bill Bray non-tendered

    Quote Originally Posted by George Anderson View Post
    So who won "the trade".

    The can of worms is opened.
    No one. Both teams lost.

  7. #6
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Bill Bray non-tendered

    Quote Originally Posted by George Anderson View Post
    So who won "the trade".

    The can of worms is opened.
    Reds lost by not getting a good return on players their fans overrated

    Washington lost by not getting excess value from players the Reds fans overrated

    The real loser were Reds fans, because it was just more suck, on top of already existing suck.

  8. #7
    Member Superdude's Avatar
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    Re: Bill Bray non-tendered

    I'll always remember him spiking the pitchout to the backstop, the runner on third coming home, Bray not noticing and sauntering slowly towards the plate, realizing what was happening just before the throw from Hanigan clocked him in the face... embarrassing moment that one.

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    Re: Bill Bray non-tendered

    Quote Originally Posted by puca View Post
    No one. Both teams lost.
    Go BLUE!!!

  10. #9
    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Bill Bray non-tendered

    Quote Originally Posted by George Anderson View Post
    So who won "the trade".

    The can of worms is opened.
    In the end, nobody won it. But the Reds still could have and should have gotten more at the time.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  11. #10
    For a Level Playing Field RedFanAlways1966's Avatar
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    Re: Bill Bray non-tendered

    Quote Originally Posted by George Anderson View Post
    So who won "the trade".

    The can of worms is opened.
    The REDS and it is not even close. Just for the fact that they unloaded two players that made way more money than they deserved. One of these players was so bad that they released him (also the worst fielding SS in 2007). I do not care what the REDS got back... they unloaded two players who were not that good and frankly did not deserve to be in the starting lineup for most MLB teams despite getting starting-8 type of money.

    OPS+
    * Kearns: 113 w/ REDS ; 92 w/ NATS
    * Lopez: 97 w/ REDS ; 76 w/ NATS

    MONEY!
    * Kearns in Wash.: 2007 = $3.5 mill, 2008 = $5.0 mill, 2009 = $8.0 mill
    * Lopez in Wash.: 2007 = $3.9 mill, 2008 = $4.9 mill (released 7-31-2008!)
    Small market fan... always hoping, but never expecting.

  12. #11
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Bill Bray non-tendered

    Quote Originally Posted by George Anderson View Post
    So who won "the trade".

    The can of worms is opened.


    In terms of pure production, the Nats won easily.

    I guess some people will claim the Reds won because they save money, but the Reds could've accomplished the same thing by nontendering Kearns and Lopez.
    In the end, the Reds got 174 IP out of Bray.. about 80 IP of those (my estimate) were good. The remaining were mediocre or bad. Only accumulated 1.8 WAR over his 6 year stay here.

    I remember when people were clinging to Daryl Thompson being the savior of the trade. I guess there will be a new rationalization now to justify the Reds winning this.

    The biggest impact was that the 2007 team which was in pseudo-contention collapsed after the "Trade"
    Clayton, Maj, and Bray (along with Freel and maybe Deno in the OF after the trade) contributed a lot to the collapse.

    Seems like an obvious loss for the Reds to me.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  13. #12
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: Bill Bray non-tendered

    In my eyes, the Reds "won" the trade by not wasting money on Kearns, Lopez, and Wagner. In the meantime, they got some value out of Bray, particularly a couple a years ago when they won the division.

  14. #13
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: Bill Bray non-tendered

    In my eyes, Jim Bowden lost.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  15. #14
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Bill Bray non-tendered

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post


    In terms of pure production, the Nats won easily.

    I guess some people will claim the Reds won because they save money, but the Reds could've accomplished the same thing by nontendering Kearns and Lopez.
    In the end, the Reds got 174 IP out of Bray.. about 80 IP of those (my estimate) were good. The remaining were mediocre or bad. Only accumulated 1.8 WAR over his 6 year stay here.

    I remember when people were clinging to Daryl Thompson being the savior of the trade. I guess there will be a new rationalization now to justify the Reds winning this.

    The biggest impact was that the 2007 team which was in pseudo-contention collapsed after the "Trade"
    Clayton, Maj, and Bray (along with Freel and maybe Deno in the OF after the trade) contributed a lot to the collapse.

    Seems like an obvious loss for the Reds to me.
    Put me in the "I don't care" since the deal is too far removed to have any current impact and everyone involved career's are either dead or on life support. Also, the folks making the deal no longer have any decision making capacity with the Reds. The amount of analysis performed on this trade just goes to show how slim the pickings were in "exciting" transactions of that time period.
    Can't win with 'em

    Can't win without 'em

  16. #15
    Go Reds Go! UKFlounder's Avatar
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    Re: Bill Bray non-tendered

    Or of this offseason so far (thought not meant as a complaint - just a statement that not much has happened for the Reds yet)

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    Put me in the "I don't care" since the deal is too far removed to have any current impact and everyone involved career's are either dead or on life support. Also, the folks making the deal no longer have any decision making capacity with the Reds. The amount of analysis performed on this trade just goes to show how slim the pickings were in "exciting" transactions of that time period.


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