Turn Off Ads?
Page 1 of 10 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 140

Thread: What would it take to get Justin Upton?

  1. #1
    Member SidneySlicker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    613

    What would it take to get Justin Upton?

    I think the Dbacks are going to start by talking Homer, Gregorious, and Soto with a throw in or two. I leave out Hamilton, because I think the Reds have made him untouchable. Would you do it?

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #2
    Member jhu1321's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    415

    Re: What would it take to get Justin Upton?

    Depends on there intentions with Chapman. If there is belief that he can be a TOR starter I think it makes Homer available to trade. If not, I think they start talking about Cingrani and Corcino. As much as I'm drooling about Homer's late season dominance, and the possibility of seeing more of that next year, it is the perfect sell high situation.

    If they ask for Homer, Gregorious & Soto I'd do it in a heartbeat. I'd probably even be willing to include one of Cingrani/Corcino..........

  4. #3
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Posts
    20,745

    Re: What would it take to get Justin Upton?

    If it costs Homer, I think I'll pass.

    We can dig up an acceptable OF (although probably not as good as Upton) without blowing a hole in the rotation.

    Even if Chapman moves into the rotation, I think we're going to need Homer and Leake to make it through the season..

    If I'm Walt, none of the current starters get traded (unless another SP comes from somewhere else).
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  5. #4
    Member SidneySlicker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    613

    Re: What would it take to get Justin Upton?

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    If it costs Homer, I think I'll pass.

    We can dig up an acceptable OF (although probably not as good as Upton) without blowing a hole in the rotation.

    Even if Chapman moves into the rotation, I think we're going to need Homer and Leake to make it through the season..

    If I'm Walt, none of the current starters get traded (unless another SP comes from somewhere else).
    Yeah I just don't see them doing it without at least 1 young player who's had success at the major league level, and the Reds minor league system simply isn't good enough to blow any team away for a Upton like player.

  6. #5
    Moderator Plus Plus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    1,449

    Re: What would it take to get Justin Upton?

    I think it depends on which Justin Upton you are trading for, and if his season this year (a relatively average one) is going to be representative of his performance going forward or if he will be able to play as he did in 2011 going forward.

    For 2011-level Justin Upton, that's probably a reasonable package. Maybe I would try and substitute Cozart in for Gregorious, but I think it would have to include a "sure thing" pitcher like Bailey (I don't think that Corcino or Cingrani would get it done, although they might- especially Cingrani after his season and his limited stay in MLB).

    For 2012-level Justin Upton, I think that's an overpay. Maybe Leake, HRod, and Duran or something might be more at the level that I would give up for this player.

    It really would take some deep analysis on the Reds' part because of Upton's age, his inconsistency in his young career so far, and the inconsistency of his brother BJ's performance in Tampa Bay, especially when considered relative to his projections that many had for BJ in 2008 at the beginning of his career.

    Justin Upton can be a real game-changer if he plays to his potential, but trading real-life players and prospects for a .785 OPS corner outfield bat is a pretty bad proposition for any team.
    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Thus his team was punished

    Long live punishment

  7. #6
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Posts
    20,745

    Re: What would it take to get Justin Upton?

    Quote Originally Posted by SidneySlicker View Post
    Yeah I just don't see them doing it without at least 1 young player who's had success at the major league level, and the Reds minor league system simply isn't good enough to blow any team away for a Upton like player.
    Yea, I agree from the Dbax point of view.
    You're proposal was reasonable, I just wouldn't do it from the Reds' point of view.
    Might be a difficult match .. In fact any trade this winter might be difficult. The Reds really only have two guys (Hamilton and Cingrani) on the cusp of ML ready. Maybe I am forgetting someone, but not a big surplus there.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  8. #7
    Member SidneySlicker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    613

    Re: What would it take to get Justin Upton?

    Quote Originally Posted by jhu1321 View Post
    Depends on there intentions with Chapman. If there is belief that he can be a TOR starter I think it makes Homer available to trade. If not, I think they start talking about Cingrani and Corcino. As much as I'm drooling about Homer's late season dominance, and the possibility of seeing more of that next year, it is the perfect sell high situation.

    If they ask for Homer, Gregorious & Soto I'd do it in a heartbeat. I'd probably even be willing to include one of Cingrani/Corcino..........
    Agree on the Homer trade high theory. Unlike many I like Chapman in the Closer role. I think maybe people are overvaluing Chapman's ability to contribute this season as a starter. I wonder how much he would be able to contribute this season in the rotation, because it will take time to develop the arm strength and the 2nd and 3 pitches he'll need to start in the majors. imo. I could be wrong though.

    I'd look at converting JJ Hoover over to fill in if Bailey were to be traded.

  9. #8
    Moderator Plus Plus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    1,449

    Re: What would it take to get Justin Upton?

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    Yea, I agree from the Dbax point of view.
    You're proposal was reasonable, I just wouldn't do it from the Reds' point of view.
    Might be a difficult match .. In fact any trade this winter might be difficult. The Reds really only have two guys (Hamilton and Cingrani) on the cusp of ML ready. Maybe I am forgetting someone, but not a big surplus there.
    Gregorious has been highly touted this offseason as well. I don't have the exact source (d'oh!) but I read on twitter the other day that pundits believe that if his bat progresses as anticipated, he could be a 60 player going forward, and be a high quality player for quite some time. Henry Rodriguez' bat has also been widely praised as being as close to a sure thing as any player in the Reds' system. Corcino is also highly regarded, and Stephenson has humongous upside.

    While the Reds' system isn't quite overflowing in the same way that it was before the Latos trade, there is still quite a bit of quality there.
    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Thus his team was punished

    Long live punishment

  10. #9
    Member SidneySlicker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    613

    Re: What would it take to get Justin Upton?

    Quote Originally Posted by Plus Plus View Post
    Gregorious has been highly touted this offseason as well. I don't have the exact source (d'oh!) but I read on twitter the other day that pundits believe that if his bat progresses as anticipated, he could be a 60 player going forward, and be a high quality player for quite some time. Henry Rodriguez' bat has also been widely praised as being as close to a sure thing as any player in the Reds' system. Corcino is also highly regarded, and Stephenson has humongous upside.

    While the Reds' system isn't quite overflowing in the same way that it was before the Latos trade, there is still quite a bit of quality there.
    I agree to an extent. It's all about knowing your minor leaguers better than anyone else and being able to sell other gm's on them.

  11. #10
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Lebanon
    Posts
    7,067

    Re: What would it take to get Justin Upton?

    Reds trade - Bailey, Corcino, Stubbs, Heisey, Lutz (future 1B to replace Helton)
    Rockies trade - Fowler, CarGo

    Chapman moves into Reds rotation. Reds re-sign Madson and Broxton. Cingrani in the hunt for starter position if Leake fails.

    CF Fowler
    2B Phillips
    1B Votto
    LF CarGo
    RF Bruce
    3B Frazier
    SS Cozart
    C Hanigan

    SP Cueto
    SP Latos
    SP Arroyo
    SP Chapman
    SP Leake or Cingrani

    CL Madson
    RP Broxton
    RP Marshall
    RP Hoover
    RP Ondrusek
    RP Arredondo
    RP LeCure

    OF Paul /Frazier
    IF Valdez
    IF HRod
    C Navarro
    OF Phipps or Felix Perez or someone
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  12. #11
    Member SidneySlicker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    613

    Re: What would it take to get Justin Upton?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    Reds trade - Bailey, Corcino, Stubbs, Heisey, Lutz (future 1B to replace Helton)
    Rockies trade - Fowler, CarGo

    Chapman moves into Reds rotation. Reds re-sign Madson and Broxton. Cingrani in the hunt for starter position if Leake fails.

    CF Fowler
    2B Phillips
    1B Votto
    LF CarGo
    RF Bruce
    3B Frazier
    SS Cozart
    C Hanigan

    SP Cueto
    SP Latos
    SP Arroyo
    SP Chapman
    SP Leake or Cingrani

    CL Madson
    RP Broxton
    RP Marshall
    RP Hoover
    RP Ondrusek
    RP Arredondo
    RP LeCure

    OF Paul /Frazier
    IF Valdez
    IF HRod
    C Navarro
    OF Phipps or Felix Perez or someone
    Pretty sure you wouldn't get Cargo for all of those players you mentioned, let alone him and Dexter Fowler. Cargo is probably a top 10 offensive player in the league and Fowler is solid. If the Colorado Rockies did that deal their GM should be fired immediately.

    Stubbs is not a very good major league player, Heisey's a mediocre player at best. I like Lutz, but he's still relatively unknown and probably 2 years away from the Majors. So basically they'd be doing that deal for Bailey (a flyball pitcher who'd play at coors field for 81 games) and Corcino who i do like a lot, but is also probably at least a year away)

  13. #12
    OlafTheBlack Dan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Woodbridge, VA
    Posts
    2,354

    Re: What would it take to get Justin Upton?

    Quote Originally Posted by Plus Plus View Post
    Justin Upton can be a real game-changer if he plays to his potential, but trading real-life players and prospects for a .785 OPS corner outfield bat is a pretty bad proposition for any team.
    That's the real kicker here. He'd definitely fit in LF or maybe CF in a pinch. But really what price do the Reds pay in terms of players going forward?
    Sabermetrics can be boiled down to this simple truism: A batter's goal is to extend the inning. Extend enough innings and you're going to score runs. Extend more innings than your opponent and you're going to score more runs than him.

  14. #13
    Member SidneySlicker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    613

    Re: What would it take to get Justin Upton?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan View Post
    That's the real kicker here. He'd definitely fit in LF or maybe CF in a pinch. But really what price do the Reds pay in terms of players going forward?
    It's all about where the players fit in to your organization. Players like SS Didi Gregorious and 1st Basmeman Neftali Soto are presumably blocked in the Reds organization. So their main value is as trade pieces, but as you said it's predecated on what you feel the player you bring in can do for you.

    I think Upton would be a huge upgrade in this offense and from a value standpoing is a pretty cost effective.

  15. #14
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Lebanon
    Posts
    7,067

    Re: What would it take to get Justin Upton?

    Quote Originally Posted by SidneySlicker View Post
    Pretty sure you wouldn't get Cargo for all of those players you mentioned, let alone him and Dexter Fowler. Cargo is probably a top 10 offensive player in the league and Fowler is solid. If the Colorado Rockies did that deal their GM should be fired immediately.

    Stubbs is not a very good major league player, Heisey's a mediocre player at best. I like Lutz, but he's still relatively unknown and probably 2 years away from the Majors. So basically they'd be doing that deal for Bailey (a flyball pitcher who'd play at coors field for 81 games) and Corcino who i do like a lot, but is also probably at least a year away)
    Okay. What would it take then to get Fowler and CarGo?

    I view a leadoff hitter/CFer and power hitting cleanup hitter/LFer as the last 2 pieces of the offensive puzzle. I'm just trying to come up with ideas to solve the problem.

    I'm tired of older retreads in LF and Stubbs in CF. Ludwick had a killer season. I don't think he can duplicate it. Fowler and CarGo are both only 26 with probably their best years ahead of them. The Reds have nearly every key position locked up long term or filled by players under control for awhile. Other than Billy Hamilton, and probably Corcino/Cingrani.......there is little to no room for anyone currently in the farm system to even reach the majors, as they would be blocked. Time to make some deals for the last pieces of the puzzle and win this thing.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  16. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta, aka, the most prosperous city in the world.
    Posts
    10,388

    Re: What would it take to get Justin Upton?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    Reds trade - Bailey, Corcino, Stubbs, Heisey, Lutz (future 1B to replace Helton)
    Rockies trade - Fowler, CarGo

    Chapman moves into Reds rotation. Reds re-sign Madson and Broxton. Cingrani in the hunt for starter position if Leake fails.
    That's a ton of money to add. CarGo, Fowler, Broxton and Madson add probably close to $30M to the payroll, and CarGo is still relatively cheap with huge increases coming.

    And that's assuming Colorado would even do that trade.


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25