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Thread: What would it take to get Justin Upton?

  1. #61
    Member Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    I'm not a big fan of Upton's, but I think he's a pretty good target. Especially when you consider he's not a one year rental like some (signed through 2015 IIRC).

    But, and this is a big "but", I do NOT deal one of the starting pitchers. Period. Whether you move Aroldis to the rotation or not, I keep all 5 of the starters from last year without a doubt. If the D-Backs are wanting a starting pitcher in the deal, then deal one of the highly touted kids (Corcino/Cingrani).

    If Chapman makes the transition smoothly, simply move Leake to Louisville as insurance and further seasoning for a highly touted kid in his own right.

    It just seems to me that people are awfully fast to want to trade away starting pitching here to add a big bopper. It's like we've forgotten what it was like to have hitting and no pitching. The strength of this team is pitching and defense. Don't give away that advantage so easily. Not when you've got kids in the minors who are blocked by starters who are viewed as very valuable by other teams. Follow the mold of the Latos trade. Deal excellent prospects who are blocked on the parent club.
    Except for Leake, trade Leake ASAP. Aside from that, yeah.
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
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    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.

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  3. #62
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: What would it take to get Justin Upton?

    Why? Why are you wanting to deal Leake? He's young with great upside. He's a perfect foil to the current staff in the same way Bronson has been. He's got a solid K rate and BB rate. The HR rate could just be a fluke. Or it might not be. But go back and look at his season(s). He's a VERY solid pitcher. Compare him to the other #5 starters in the bigs. He's got to be a top 5 in that group. Heck, he'd probably be a middle of the pack #4 starter. Add in his ability to hit and field his position and I've got ZERO problem with having Leake on the staff. Corcino/Cingrani...we have no idea what they'll do against big league pitching. I just don't get the constant hot-stove desire to deal away either Leake or Bailey. At all.
    2014 predictions:
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  4. #63
    Member Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    Why? Why are you wanting to deal Leake? He's young with great upside. He's a perfect foil to the current staff in the same way Bronson has been. He's got a solid K rate and BB rate. The HR rate could just be a fluke. Or it might not be. But go back and look at his season(s). He's a VERY solid pitcher. Compare him to the other #5 starters in the bigs. He's got to be a top 5 in that group. Heck, he'd probably be a middle of the pack #4 starter. Add in his ability to hit and field his position and I've got ZERO problem with having Leake on the staff. Corcino/Cingrani...we have no idea what they'll do against big league pitching. I just don't get the constant hot-stove desire to deal away either Leake or Bailey. At all.
    I'm just advocating trading him for good value. If he could be the centerpiece for a slugging LF/starting CF, I would do that ASAP.
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.

  5. #64
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: What would it take to get Justin Upton?

    Quote Originally Posted by LegallyMinded View Post
    The fangraphs chat also addressed Trevor Bauer:



    Sounds like there's something to the rumors of a conflict with management, but perhaps not enough to make Arizona give up on him (yet).
    From what I understand Bauer is a lot like Tim Lincecum. He's a very smart guy who has developed his own way of doing things, particularly in regards to his his extreme use of long tossing and assortment of pitches. They've tried to get him to fall in line and he's been fairly headstrong. I'm guessing they just don't want to deal with him and/or are concerned about his health and would prefer a more standard guy.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  6. #65
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    Re: What would it take to get Justin Upton?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    From what I understand Bauer is a lot like Tim Lincecum. He's a very smart guy who has developed his own way of doing things, particularly in regards to his his extreme use of long tossing and assortment of pitches. They've tried to get him to fall in line and he's been fairly headstrong. I'm guessing they just don't want to deal with him and/or are concerned about his health and would prefer a more standard guy.
    http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...s_mlb&c_id=mlb

    I think this article says all I need to know. We've been hearing Upton rumors for years and now Bauer's getting thrown around after 16 innings in the majors. They can be had at the right price, but no way are either of them headed back to Cincy in a deal headlined by Leake and Gregorius.

  7. #66
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    Re: What would it take to get Justin Upton?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rojo View Post
    I'm thinking Dave Martinez-ey. But we could use a Dave Martinez.
    I spent close to a decade hoping the Reds would go after Dave Martinez. And you're right, Parra's a similar player.
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  8. #67
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    Re: What would it take to get Justin Upton?

    Homer Bailey/Mike Leake, Zack Cozart/Didi Gregorious, Drew Stubbs/Chris Heisey, Logan Ondrusek and Chad Rogers/Kyle Lotzkar for Justin Upton and Trevor Bauer?
    Last edited by corkedbat; 11-10-2012 at 12:46 AM.

  9. #68
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    Re: What would it take to get Justin Upton?

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    Why? Why are you wanting to deal Leake? He's young with great upside. He's a perfect foil to the current staff in the same way Bronson has been. He's got a solid K rate and BB rate. The HR rate could just be a fluke. Or it might not be. But go back and look at his season(s). He's a VERY solid pitcher. Compare him to the other #5 starters in the bigs. He's got to be a top 5 in that group. Heck, he'd probably be a middle of the pack #4 starter. Add in his ability to hit and field his position and I've got ZERO problem with having Leake on the staff. Corcino/Cingrani...we have no idea what they'll do against big league pitching. I just don't get the constant hot-stove desire to deal away either Leake or Bailey. At all.
    I'd like to second this, except to say I find it even more incomprehensible that there's constant mention of trading Bailey. The strength of the 2012 team was starting pitching and particularly its remarkable consistency. I like the move of Chapman to the rotation but we are a long way from knowing how successful it's going to be. That said, I hope we go to spring training with all 5 of this year's guys and Chapman. I'd deal Leake only in the most perfect of deals and I wouldn't even consider trading Bailey.

  10. #69
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    Re: What would it take to get Justin Upton?

    From the article above:

    According to reports, the D-backs would need an everyday position player or top-of-the-rotation pitcher in return as part of a deal for Upton.

    "It's not about Justin. It's not like we are shopping him," Hall continued. "We are willing to listen to anybody, and we've always said that. I think what happens is that if opposing GMs talk to Kevin or anybody on our staff and say, 'Hey, are you willing to talk about Justin?' and we say 'Yes,' -- to the media it's, 'Hey, they are willing to talk Justin,' and there it goes and it spirals out of control."
    Stubbs, Cozart, and Leake for Upton?

    I'm guessing that might get it done.

    Phillips 2B
    Upton LF
    Votto 1B
    Frazier 3B
    Bruce RF
    Heisey/ Paul/ FA CF
    Hanigan C
    Gregorius SS

    Cueto
    Latos
    Chapman
    Bailey
    Arroyo

    They'd need to find a closer and another bullpen arm. A good bench bat, maybe two.
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
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  11. #70
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: What would it take to get Justin Upton?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    From the article above:



    Stubbs, Cozart, and Leake for Upton?

    I'm guessing that might get it done.

    Phillips 2B
    Upton LF
    Votto 1B
    Frazier 3B
    Bruce RF
    Heisey/ Paul/ FA CF
    Hanigan C
    Gregorius SS

    Cueto
    Latos
    Chapman
    Bailey
    Arroyo

    They'd need to find a closer and another bullpen arm. A good bench bat, maybe two.
    No way that gets it done. Leake is not a top of the rotation picther, Cozart is a non-star level position player and Stubbs is spot player/interchangeable part. Would you trade Jay Bruce for that? If you wouldn't be willing to deal Bruce for whatever package being proposed, chances are that the D-Backs wouldn't deal Upton for the same package,
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  12. #71
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    Re: What would it take to get Justin Upton?

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    No way that gets it done. Leake is not a top of the rotation picther, Cozart is a non-star level position player and Stubbs is spot player/interchangeable part. Would you trade Jay Bruce for that? If you wouldn't be willing to deal Bruce for whatever package being proposed, chances are that the D-Backs wouldn't deal Upton for the same package,
    They weren't asking for a top offensive starter according to the link. They were simply asking for a starting offensive player.

    And I'd argue that Cozart is above average as a SS (12th in WAR in mlb), fills their biggest hole with plus production, and is as cheap as any starter in the game.

    The WAR actually works in Cozart's favor, 2.7 - 2.5 for 2012.

    If you add Leake and Stubbs on top (not to mention the $9 million + owed next season, and you see plenty of reason why the DBacks might bite.

    (That said, I fully expect Upton to go to Texas for Andrus, which would pave the way for Profar.)
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
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  13. #72
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: What would it take to get Justin Upton?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    They weren't asking for a top offensive starter according to the link. They were simply asking for a starting offensive player.

    And I'd argue that Cozart is above average as a SS (12th in WAR in mlb), fills their biggest hole with plus production, and is as cheap as any starter in the game.

    The WAR actually works in Cozart's favor, 2.7 - 2.5 for 2012.

    If you add Leake and Stubbs on top (not to mention the $9 million + owed next season, and you see plenty of reason why the DBacks might bite.

    (That said, I fully expect Upton to go to Texas for Andrus, which would pave the way for Profar.)
    Sub Cueto for Leake and they might do it. You could probably leave Stubbs out. I can't imagine they'd have much interest in him. The Article said TOR starter and an every day position player as a part of a deal. Cueto, Cozart and something else, maybe Marshall.

    I agree on Texas. I'm guessing Andrus, Olt and Martin Perez.
    Last edited by mth123; 11-10-2012 at 12:22 PM.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  14. #73
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    Re: What would it take to get Justin Upton?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    If you add Leake and Stubbs on top (not to mention the $9 million + owed next season, and you see plenty of reason why the DBacks might bite.

    (That said, I fully expect Upton to go to Texas for Andrus, which would pave the way for Profar.)
    First of all, kudos for the snake pun.

    Secondly, I gotta think a combination of Bailey/Cozart is more enticing than just Andrus. Cozart is cheaper and has two more years of control than Andrus, and you get a solid starting pitcher. And yes, I would make that trade...
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

  15. #74
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    Re: What would it take to get Justin Upton?

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Sub Cueto for Leake and they might do it. You could probably leave Stubbs out. I can't imagine they'd have much interest in him. The Article said TOR starter and an every day position player as a part of a deal. Cueto, Cozart and something else, maybe Marshall.

    I agree on Texas. I'm guessing Andrus, Olt and Martin Perez.
    Meh, if he's viewed as more of a second or third player on a championship team he isn't fetching an ace +. Bailey, Cozart, and a couple of prospects should be enough. Anything more is overpay and it is their prerogative if they'd rather hold onto Upton...
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

  16. #75
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: What would it take to get Justin Upton?

    I just don't see dealing a 25 year old star who is under reasonable control for three years unless its a deal that makes over the entire franchise. Andrus, Olt. Perez would do that. Leake,Cozart. and Stubbs wouldn't. They'd probably be interested in Leake or Cozart, but not as a primary piece of a deal for Upton. One of the SS for Gerardo Parra may work. Or Leake for Parra, but I wouldn't unless the Reds had another arm to play swingman/5th starter.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS


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