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Thread: If the Reds do convert Chapman...

  1. #1
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    If the Reds do convert Chapman...

    And it's starting to look like they'll finally pull the trigger for good, how do you suppose they handle the rest of the staff?

    Will they trade Bailey? Trade Leake? Option Leake? Put Leake or Bailey in the pen until Chapman reaches an innings limit? Start Leake or Bailey early in the year until they can stretch Chapman's innings to the end of the year?

    Personally, I'd be willing to trade Bailey only if it net them a quality starting LF or CF (that could be converted to LF next year). I think Leake's value is unappreciated here, though I'd trade him under the same circumstances (while noting he doesn't have as much trade value as Bailey). But it would be nice to have both since they could have the other replace Arroyo when his contract comes off the books.

    I tend to think the Reds will not trade either, but I wonder how they approach Chapman's innings for this year and what they do with the other pitcher in the meantime. Leake, because he has an option they could use if done at the beginning of the year, has more flexibility.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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  3. #2
    Brett William Moore Will M's Avatar
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    Re: If the Reds do convert Chapman...

    1) keep Bailey

    2) I'm ok with moving Leake IF the team backfills his roster spot with a swingman/6th starter. The team needs more depth in case of injuries. 2012's healthy rotation is the exception not the norm

    3) I'd probably start Chapman in the rotation then move him to the pen when he gets to a certain innings limit. Maybe mid August

    4) I'd get two good (they don't have to be great) bullpen arms to replace Chapman & Broxton.
    .

  4. #3
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: If the Reds do convert Chapman...

    If they pulled the trigger and put Aroldis in the rotation, I'd guess that Leake would get optioned (as they still need depth), and that they'd attempt to sign a closer (Madson or Broxton most likely). If they failed to sign one, then they'd go with an in-house closer (LeCure, Hoover & Marshall are the most likely candidates IMO...I'd lead towards Marshall)

    And yes, I'm in favor of doing this too.
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    Member Superdude's Avatar
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    Re: If the Reds do convert Chapman...

    Best case scenario is Chapman going easy for a month or so and having enough left in the tank come playoff time. I'll get flamed for this, but can Chapman still be optioned to Louisville to start the season? Not only can they easily limit his innings, but also get a better idea of what exactly he's bringing to the table as a starter before we throw him into the fire.

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    Re: If the Reds do convert Chapman...

    I seem to recall in the Marshall thread-bad memory? that Marshall would be moved into the closer slot after 2012. In that case, we'd need a set-up man, not a closer.

  7. #6
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    Re: If the Reds do convert Chapman...

    What I would do, personally, is trade Bailey or Leake to Cleveland for Chris Perez and maybe another lefty (Nick Hagadone?) Both have fallen out of favor in Cleveland and could be useful.

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    Re: If the Reds do convert Chapman...

    Quote Originally Posted by cinreds21 View Post
    What I would do, personally, is trade Bailey or Leake to Cleveland for Chris Perez and maybe another lefty (Nick Hagadone?) Both have fallen out of favor in Cleveland and could be useful.
    Trade Bailey for Chris Perez? NFW!!!

    I am never a big fan of trading a lot for closers. I think they can be found economically in FA and in converting other pitchers in the organization.

    I agree on Marshall- didn't we sign him to that extension thinking he is the closer of the future?
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    Re: If the Reds do convert Chapman...

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    Trade Bailey for Chris Perez? NFW!!!

    I am never a big fan of trading a lot for closers. I think they can be found economically in FA and in converting other pitchers in the organization.

    I agree on Marshall- didn't we sign him to that extension thinking he is the closer of the future?
    And he did poorly. I don't think Bailey is too much to give up. Yes, he had a good year in 2012, but before that he was barely a fourth or fifth starter. I am just not fully sold on his turnaround. Perez is a very under-the-radar closer who doesn't get much publicity (minus him throwing the front office under the bus.) But he's not some horrible closer. A 59/16 K/BB ratio is pretty good. And if you take away his bad August (where his ERA was over 6) he had a really good year.

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    Re: If the Reds do convert Chapman...

    Quote Originally Posted by cinreds21 View Post
    And he did poorly. I don't think Bailey is too much to give up. Yes, he had a good year in 2012, but before that he was barely a fourth or fifth starter. I am just not fully sold on his turnaround. Perez is a very under-the-radar closer who doesn't get much publicity (minus him throwing the front office under the bus.) But he's not some horrible closer. A 59/16 K/BB ratio is pretty good. And if you take away his bad August (where his ERA was over 6) he had a really good year.
    I think Perez could be had for much less than Bailey. And if not, I'd pass on Perez.

    I wouldn't trade Bailey for any closer in the game, including Krimbel. I don't think it's worth it from a value standpoint.
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    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: If the Reds do convert Chapman...

    I would not be at all surprised to see Jocketty in the market for Justin Upton. Rumor is that the D'backs want good, young starting pitching as the centerpiece. Bailey, Stubbs/Heisey, and prospect(s) for Upton would make a lot of sense, especially given how close Billy Hamilton seems to be as the CF. That said, I think Upton ends up in Texas. A more likely scenario is Denard Span.
    Last edited by RedsManRick; 11-08-2012 at 06:30 PM.
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    Re: If the Reds do convert Chapman...

    I wouldnt trade anyone from the rotation. its highly unlikely that even all 6 of these guys stays healthy like in 2012. Leake will prove to be valuable in some capacity. I would almost consider betting my life that someone will have to fight the injury bug and Im not trying to be a negative nancy but im just being realistic.
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    Member MikeThierry's Avatar
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    Re: If the Reds do convert Chapman...

    I hope upon hope that Cincy moves Chapman to the rotation. It would be taking a clear strength and putting into an unknown.
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    Re: If the Reds do convert Chapman...

    Quote Originally Posted by DGullett35 View Post
    I wouldnt trade anyone from the rotation. its highly unlikely that even all 6 of these guys stays healthy like in 2012. Leake will prove to be valuable in some capacity. I would almost consider betting my life that someone will have to fight the injury bug and Im not trying to be a negative nancy but im just being realistic.
    Completely agree. The Reds only used 6 starters all year in 2012. That's not going to happen again, in fact, more likely to to the other way, where they use closer to ten starters.

    I can even see a situation where Leake and Bailey are the two best Reds starters for a decent period during 2013, due to injury.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  15. #14
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: If the Reds do convert Chapman...

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeThierry View Post
    I hope upon hope that Cincy moves Chapman to the rotation. It would be taking a clear strength and putting into an unknown.
    I'm glad you feel that way because it doesn't make any sense.

    Do you know what Aroldis Chapman (1.51 ERA), Jason Motte (2.75), J.J. Putz (2.80), Tyler Clippard (3.72) and Frank Francisco (5.53) had in common? Despite their ERAs being all over the map, those five all saved between 85-88% of their save opportunities.

    What does that tell us? That you don't need a super-dominant closer to get the job done. There is a point of diminishing returns where all the extra runs saved don't win you extra ballgames. If you have a 3-run lead in the bottom of the 9th, you still win the game whether you shut out the opponent or give up two runs.

    So Chapman in the rotation would have a much greater impact.

    Frankly you say this now, but when Chapman has a sub-3 ERA as a starter and the Reds still have a guy saving 90% of their games at closer, you won't be so happy.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: If the Reds do convert Chapman...

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeThierry View Post
    I hope upon hope that Cincy moves Chapman to the rotation. It would be taking a clear strength and putting into an unknown.
    So you think the Cardinals would have been better off leaving Wainwright as closer? It is not "unknown," it is a reassignment with the goal of maximizing a players value based on known skills. The worst case scenario is that his maximum value is as closer. Sometimes you have to try things to discover a player's ceiling.
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