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Thread: 2012-2013 NBA Season

  1. #76
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    Re: 2012-2013 NBA Season

    The San Antonio Spurs have the best record in the NBA in spite of having played 8 more road games than home games.
    Zero chance the Reds miss the playoffs!

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  3. #77
    part of BBN jmac's Avatar
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    Re: 2012-2013 NBA Season

    Greg Popavich is a tremendous coach ! You hear alot about Phil it seems when talking of great coaching but Phil had MJ and Kobe/Shaq.
    I think Pop is right up there.

  4. #78
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    Re: 2012-2013 NBA Season

    Quote Originally Posted by jmac View Post
    Greg Popavich is a tremendous coach ! You hear alot about Phil it seems when talking of great coaching but Phil had MJ and Kobe/Shaq.
    I think Pop is right up there.
    In 2009 and 2010, Phil only had Kobe, no Shaq. Lakers have Kobe/Howard now and their current coach is struggling to get them to the playoffs.

  5. #79
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    Re: 2012-2013 NBA Season

    Quote Originally Posted by RBA View Post
    In 2009 and 2010, Phil only had Kobe, no Shaq. Lakers have Kobe/Howard now and their current coach is struggling to get them to the playoffs.
    And the Lakers have been completely healthy how often this season? In a season where the West is particularly strong, at least at the top, the Lakers couldn't afford to have Nash, Howard and Gasol in sick bay for extended periods of time.

    True, D'antoni may not be the best coach for this particular team - i.e: the players, particularly Howard, don't seem to fit his system - but that's not proof that Phil Jackson is a better coach than Pops.

    Pops at least built something from the ground up, whereas Phil always walked into great, ready-made situations.
    "I have just been more than a little suspect of all the trades since the Willy (Scott Williamson) cash grab. That one left such a bad taste in my mouth that even a 1985 Dom Pérignon couldn't cleanse it." -- Creek14

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    jmac (02-24-2013)

  7. #80
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    Re: 2012-2013 NBA Season

    Quote Originally Posted by Revering4Blue View Post
    And the Lakers have been completely healthy how often this season? In a season where the West is particularly strong, at least at the top, the Lakers couldn't afford to have Nash, Howard and Gasol in sick bay for extended periods of time.

    True, D'antoni may not be the best coach for this particular team - i.e: the players, particularly Howard, don't seem to fit his system - but that's not proof that Phil Jackson is a better coach than Pops.

    Pops at least built something from the ground up, whereas Phil always walked into great, ready-made situations.
    I not saying PJ is better or worst than Pops. They are two of the greatest coaches ever. I don't know how anyone could say either way. Unless they had the exact same players.

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    Revering4Blue (02-24-2013)

  9. #81
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    Re: 2012-2013 NBA Season

    Quote Originally Posted by Revering4Blue View Post
    And the Lakers have been completely healthy how often this season? In a season where the West is particularly strong, at least at the top, the Lakers couldn't afford to have Nash, Howard and Gasol in sick bay for extended periods of time.

    True, D'antoni may not be the best coach for this particular team - i.e: the players, particularly Howard, don't seem to fit his system - but that's not proof that Phil Jackson is a better coach than Pops.

    Pops at least built something from the ground up, whereas Phil always walked into great, ready-made situations.
    Pop tanked in his first season and got Duncan. It would be really hard to screw up a team that Tim Duncan and David Robinson.

    I'm not saying Pop isn't great, but no one EVER gives RC Buford credit for getting him Ginobili and Parker in the second round. And, when you have three anchors like Duncan, Manu, and Parker, it is easy to draft players to fit roles.

    I tend to think that coaches make very little difference (particularly in pro basketball and baseball). Let me ask it this way. What happens if Eric Spoelstra wins three titles with LeBron, Wade, and Bosh? Does he enter the pantheon? Why or why not?
    Variatio delectat - Cicero

  10. #82
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    Re: 2012-2013 NBA Season

    What happens if Eric Spoelstra wins three titles with LeBron, Wade, and Bosh? Does he enter the pantheon? Why or why not?
    That it is a good question.

    If Spoelstra had been "Van Gundyd", Pat Riley would have once again reaped the all of the benefits of walking into a contending situation at the right time.

    I think RBA hit the nail on the head about coaches in the exact situations with the exact players at the same time. I also believe the era of coaching - and obviously the team's personnel - play huge factors.

    No amount of coaching would have made this season's Bobcats or the early 80's Cavs and Pacers competitive. At the same time, one could argue that Charles Nelson Reilly could have coached the Showtime era Lakers -among other examples - to multiple championships.

    In the end, talent alone usually wins out.
    "I have just been more than a little suspect of all the trades since the Willy (Scott Williamson) cash grab. That one left such a bad taste in my mouth that even a 1985 Dom Pérignon couldn't cleanse it." -- Creek14

  11. #83
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    Re: 2012-2013 NBA Season

    Sometimes it is plain and simple about timing. Would we be talking about Pat Riley after replacing Paul Westhead? Phil Jackson got his start after taking over the Bulls from Doug Collins. I dont know, I think there are a lot of great coaches out there......but a lot of times I just think it is an organizational fit based on what the organization wants to achieve and who they want roaming the sidelines.
    ...and this one belongs to the Reds.

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    Revering4Blue (02-24-2013)

  13. #84
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    Re: 2012-2013 NBA Season

    When it comes to Popovich specifically, he is a brilliant coach. But, his situation has allowed him to be extraordinary. Here is an example.

    Last season, the Spurs were playing the Mavs and they were down big late in the 3rd quarter. Pop brought in the bench, as he does when his team is down big. He does this for two reasons. First, he wanted to rest his older players. Second, he rewards his secondary players by making them the first options on offense every once in a while. So, with the backups and lesser players in, the Spurs made a furious comeback. And, any other coach would have brought the starters back in to try to finish the game. But, Pop rewarded his secondary players and left the game in their hands. The game ended up going to overtime and still he kept Duncan and Parker (Manu was hurt) on the bench. The Spurs ended up losing the game, but the Pop did something truly unique in leaving the game in the hands of the backups.

    Now, that was a great move by Pop. It is one of the reasons his teams are always so deep. He gives his secondary players minutes and he even allowed them to be the stars for once. But, here is the catch and here is why Pop can do that. Duncan and Parker were on the bench cheering every play like the bench guys do. New imagine Carmelo, Kobe, Michael Jordan, Shaq, or almost any other superstar letting that happen. Kobe would have simply subbed himself in with a few minutes left if the game was on the line. Duncan allows Popovich to truly coach the team the way he feels fit and thus Pop gets a ton of credit for his brilliance.
    Variatio delectat - Cicero

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    Revering4Blue (02-28-2013)

  15. #85
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    Re: 2012-2013 NBA Season

    Quote Originally Posted by RBA View Post
    I not saying PJ is better or worst than Pops. They are two of the greatest coaches ever. I don't know how anyone could say either way. Unless they had the exact same players.
    Niether was I. I was merely stating you dont hear Greg P's name mentioned alot though he is getting more respect. Duncan has been an anchor for that franchise for years but I was also saying when you hear talk of the "greatest" players of all-time, you usually have 3 debated : Lebron-Kobe- and of course MJ. PJ had 2 of those to put with his resume.
    What has always impressed me about Pops is even when his team had injurys (whether Duncan,Ginobli or whoever), his teams always seem to stay competitive.
    As stated in the more recent posts, many times in NBA, it is who you have. Cal, can recruit # 1 classes in college but in the NBA, if he went to the Raptors, he basically is stuck with who he has.
    Alot of NBA coaches are good coaches in bad situations so their talent goes unseen. Yet if you put Spolstra (?) on the Wizzards, would they be any better ? Doubtful.
    Teams like the Warriors, Pacers, Grizzlies are nice stories for this NBA season.
    I imagine most fans couldnt even list 2 of 3 coaches on those teams. Personally, I know Mark Jackson but couldnt tell you the other 2.
    Probably when time comes for Coach of the year, it will be a big time coach, like ES or Brooks etc.
    RBA, I only quoted you on the first in regards to myself not meaning Pops was better than PJ, just has been under rated over the years. The rest are my thoughts on NBA coaching.

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    Revering4Blue (02-28-2013)

  17. #86
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    Re: 2012-2013 NBA Season

    Sad news.

    Former Knicks point guard Ray Williams dies of cancer.

    Williams was the No. 10 pick in the 1977 draft out of Minnesota and he played his first four seasons in New York (much of it next to Michael Ray Richardson). Williams was a good defender who averaged 15.5 points a game for his career. In addition to New York he had stints with the Nets, (then Kansas City) Kings, Celtics, Hawks and Spurs.

    However, after his playing days things fell apart for the man known as “Sugar Ray” and he ended up homeless and living out of his car. It was a sad story.

    Knicks coach Mike Woodson spoke about Williams to the New York Post.

    “He was awesome,” Woodson told The Post recently. “Physical. Tough. Knew how to play. He was a prototype combo guard because he can play 1, he could play 2 and could guard the 3 because he was so physical. To see him in the hospital like that you don’t wish that on anyone. That’s why we should be fortunate we can walk around and laugh.”
    http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.c...ncer/#comments
    "I have just been more than a little suspect of all the trades since the Willy (Scott Williamson) cash grab. That one left such a bad taste in my mouth that even a 1985 Dom Pérignon couldn't cleanse it." -- Creek14

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    Re: 2012-2013 NBA Season

    Tough news about Ray Williams. He was a good one and that's way too young. Ray was was from Mt Vernon, NY , a town which has produced some good ball players including Ray's brother Gus, Earl Tatum, Ben Gordon, Kevin Jones, Rudy Hackett, and Scooter and Rodney McCray.

  19. #88
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    Re: 2012-2013 NBA Season

    Well, the Heat's winning streak had to end some time. Lost in the shuffle is the fact that the Heat won several games in that span with Wade and others injured.

    That has to account for something.
    "I have just been more than a little suspect of all the trades since the Willy (Scott Williamson) cash grab. That one left such a bad taste in my mouth that even a 1985 Dom Pérignon couldn't cleanse it." -- Creek14

  20. #89
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    Re: 2012-2013 NBA Season

    Are the Heat as good now as Jordan's Bulls?
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
    -- Christy Matthewson
    "Show me a good loser and I'll show you an idiot."
    -- Leo Durocher

  21. #90
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    Re: 2012-2013 NBA Season

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Are the Heat as good now as Jordan's Bulls?
    Come see me after they win 3 or 4 more championships.

    Hats off to Jimmy Butler for a big time game last night. Butler was Buzz' first recruit at Marquette and he was on nobody's radar at the time. His development has been really impressive.


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