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Thread: Jay Bruce 2012 Silver Slugger

  1. #16
    Member hebroncougar's Avatar
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    Re: Jay Bruce 2012 Silver Slugger

    Leake should have won.

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  3. #17
    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: Jay Bruce 2012 Silver Slugger

    I just don't have the energy to get worked up over hitting awards for pitchers.

    Congrats to Jay Bruce.

  4. #18
    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Jay Bruce 2012 Silver Slugger

    I've long since come to accepting that Jay Bruce will be a player who you can only judge by the full picture at season's end. Such an enigma at times during the season. And yet, he now is the only player in MLB history to hit 20 home runs in his rookie season and increase that total in each subsequent season. He and Frank Robinson are the only Reds to hit 20 or more home runs in their first five seasons. And he leads all ML players 25 or younger in career home runs (134, I think). If he ever smooths out the peaks and valleys, he'll only be better (no duh, right?). Congrats, Jay.
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  5. #19
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Jay Bruce 2012 Silver Slugger

    Does anyone think that Jay should've won this award? We have seen tons of handwringing over the potential AL vote not taking more modern metrics into account yet no one comments that Jay was likely voted in because of his edge over others in stats such as HR and RBI?

  6. #20
    Member MikeThierry's Avatar
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    Re: Jay Bruce 2012 Silver Slugger

    Call me a homer in this but did Jay really have a better year at the plate than Holliday or Beltran? As I understand, the SS are given to outfielders and isn't limited to RF, LF, and CF. I'm not doubting that Jay had a great year at the plate. His HR's and RBI's would suggest so. However when stacked against Matt Holliday, for example, Holliday blows him away in practically every offensive category except HR's and SLG%.

    Also, please correct me if I'm wrong in saying that they award it to just 3 OFer's and isn't limited by position.
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  7. #21
    Member MikeThierry's Avatar
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    Re: Jay Bruce 2012 Silver Slugger

    I just checked Fangraphs and Holliday was almost 3 WAR better than Bruce was this year. Fielding doesn't play into it because both were bad this year.
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  8. #22
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Jay Bruce 2012 Silver Slugger

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Leake had a higher average. Strasburg had the higher OPS.

    Strasburg had a stronger triple slash. By a decent margin.
    Doug, you realize that if Leake had one more plate appearance... a single, he has a better OPS than Strasburg?

    That's how meaningless Strasburg's edge in OPS is over Leake. There was no "decent margin." It's the batting equivalent to 'last team with the ball wins.'
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  9. #23
    Oy Vey! Red in Chicago's Avatar
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    Re: Jay Bruce 2012 Silver Slugger

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I will buy that he had more plate appearances, thus could have been of more value. But when looking at just the two lines, one is certainly stronger than the other.
    Doug, you probably get more grief on this board than anyone, but for this post, you would deserve it

  10. #24
    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: Jay Bruce 2012 Silver Slugger

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    Doug, you realize that if Leake had one more plate appearance... a single, he has a better OPS than Strasburg?

    That's how meaningless Strasburg's edge in OPS is over Leake. There was no "decent margin." It's the batting equivalent to 'last team with the ball wins.'
    Ya, I'd call this one a flip of the coin.

    Defining one guy's stats as better than the other when we are talking about such thin margins is really bad statistical analysis.

  11. #25
    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: Jay Bruce 2012 Silver Slugger

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
    Ya, I'd call this one a flip of the coin.

    Defining one guy's stats as better than the other when we are talking about such thin margins is really bad statistical analysis.
    Yeah, and especially since one guy is a much better pitcher, it's no surprise he got the nod.

  12. #26
    Member MikeThierry's Avatar
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    Re: Jay Bruce 2012 Silver Slugger

    Isn't it almost kind of pointless to argue who gets the SS at the pitcher position?
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  13. #27
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Jay Bruce 2012 Silver Slugger

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    Doug, you realize that if Leake had one more plate appearance... a single, he has a better OPS than Strasburg?

    That's how meaningless Strasburg's edge in OPS is over Leake. There was no "decent margin." It's the batting equivalent to 'last team with the ball wins.'
    Small sample size and all, we will see big swings with one at bat. Still, there was a solid advantage in OBP and overall plate discipline. Give me Strasburg.

  14. #28
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Jay Bruce 2012 Silver Slugger

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Small sample size and all, we will see big swings with one at bat. Still, there was a solid advantage in OBP and overall plate discipline. Give me Strasburg.
    That's the thing. I don't see how anything that can come down to a swing of one plate appearance can possibly be called a "solid advantage" or "decent margin" in anything. If you prefer Strasburg, that's fine...it's certainly debatable. But there's no possible way you can make heads from tails in that sample statistically.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  15. #29
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Jay Bruce 2012 Silver Slugger

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeThierry View Post
    Call me a homer in this but did Jay really have a better year at the plate than Holliday or Beltran? As I understand, the SS are given to outfielders and isn't limited to RF, LF, and CF. I'm not doubting that Jay had a great year at the plate. His HR's and RBI's would suggest so. However when stacked against Matt Holliday, for example, Holliday blows him away in practically every offensive category except HR's and SLG%.

    Also, please correct me if I'm wrong in saying that they award it to just 3 OFer's and isn't limited by position.
    Not a homer thought. And also, you are correct in that it is 3 OFers regardless of position.

  16. #30
    RZ Chamber of Commerce Unassisted's Avatar
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    Re: Jay Bruce 2012 Silver Slugger

    Quote Originally Posted by Always Red View Post
    Yeah, and especially since one guy is a much better pitcher, it's no surprise he got the nod.
    The criteria for these awards is probably a lot like the Gold Glove awards, which seem to incorporate hitting into what is ostensibly a fielding award. If the hitting stats are similar, the edge goes to the better pitcher.
    /r/reds


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