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Thread: Your Offseason Plan in 3 Moves or Less

  1. #76
    Member kpresidente's Avatar
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    Re: Your Offseason Plan in 3 Moves or Less

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    They build the best team they can year to year, and figure they can buy whatever else they need.
    But even back when they were making WS runs they wouldn't trade Andrus who was blocked by Michael Young.

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  3. #77
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Your Offseason Plan in 3 Moves or Less

    I assume you mean 3 major moves, meaning I can make a few smaller moves to tweak the team at the end, right? Ok let's give this a whirl...(And in this order)

    Braves get - 2B Brandon Phillips -Why the Braves do it: Get a good defender with offense at 2B, get rid of Uggla.

    Royals get - 2B Dan Uggla & LHP Alex Wood - Why the Royals do it: Get a good young arm and some offensive productivity at 2B (yeah Uggla is actually an upgrade to what they have had) and they can DH Uggla at times to mitigate his defensive issues.

    Reds get - RHP Wade Davis & 2B/3B/CF Emilio Bonafacio Why the Reds do it: Free up dollars (and improve chemistry?), add innings to the rotation mix and versatility on the bench.

    Next....

    D-Backs get - RHP Homer Bailey (Get a much needed top of the rotation arm who is ready now and has pitched in a hitters park and they are close to where Homer is from so they feel confident in retaining him)

    Astros get -LHP Tyler Skaggs, C Devin Mesoraco & CF Billy Hamilton (Get younger with 3 blue chip prospects one of which is a starting pitcher with top of the rotation upside.)

    Reds get - CF Adam Eaton*, 2B Jose Altuve, & C Jason Castro (Reds fill 2 holes at CF & 2B with 2 guys who can hit at the top of the lineup and get a more ready catcher who also happens to hit from the left side.

    * Assuming Eaton checks out physically otherwise make it A.J. Pollock

    Next...

    Reds sign Phil Hughes to a 2 yr deal - Reds teach him a change up and he finally lives up to some of his potential and becomes a solid 3rd starter on a playoff team in 2014.

    Minor Trade - Jack Hannahan to Colorado for 2B/SS Josh Rutledge

    Your 2014 Reds squad

    2B - Jose Altuve
    CF - Adam Eaton
    1B - Joey Votto
    RF - Jay Bruce
    LF - Ryan Ludwick
    C - Jason Castro
    3B - Todd Frazier
    SS - Zack Cozart

    Ryan Hanigan C
    Emilio Bonafacio UT
    Chris Heisey OF
    Xavier Paul OF
    Josh Rutledge MI

    Mat Latos
    Johnny Cueto
    Phil Hughes
    Mike Leake
    Wade Davis/Cingrani

    Chapman
    Broxton
    Marshall
    LeCure
    Hoover
    Parra
    Simon

    Plus I would extend Mat Latos now with the savings.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

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  5. #78
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Your Offseason Plan in 3 Moves or Less

    I have modest ambitions this year.

    1. Trade Phillips, etc. to Toronto for Jose Bautista, etc.
    2. Sign Omar Infante for 3/25ish
    3. Trade Ludwick & Leake to Texas for Leonys Martin, Joakim Soria & and a prospects(?)

    Firstly, let me state that I think Phillips 2011 was a BABIP driven aberration. He's a 3 WAR player at this point, which is nothing to complain about but hardly irreplaceable. Infante is a essentially a 90% of Phillips player -- good defender, good contact, few walks, a bit of pop.

    This leaves us significantly upgraded in LF, rid of Phillip's attitude/distraction, without adding salary.

    Lineup
    2B Infante
    1B Votto
    LF Bautista
    RF Bruce
    3B Frazier
    CA Mesoraco
    SS Cozart
    SP Pitcher
    CF Hamilton/Martin

    Rotation
    Latos
    Cueto
    Bailey
    Chapman
    Cingrani

    Bullpen
    CL Broxton
    SU Marshall
    SU LeCure
    MR Hoover
    MR Soria
    MR Parra (Christiani if Parra not re-signed)
    LR Simon
    Last edited by RedsManRick; 11-06-2013 at 01:07 AM.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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  7. #79
    Member Old school 1983's Avatar
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    Re: Your Offseason Plan in 3 Moves or Less

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    I have modest ambitions this year.

    1. Trade Phillips, etc. to Toronto for Jose Bautista, etc.
    2. Sign Omar Infante for 3/25ish
    3. Trade Ludwick & Leake to Texas for Leonys Martin, Joakim Soria & and a prospects(?)

    Firstly, let me state that I think Phillips 2011 was a BABIP driven aberration. He's a 3 WAR player at this point, which is nothing to complain about but hardly irreplaceable. Infante is a essentially a 90% of Phillips player -- good defender, good contact, few walks, a bit of pop.

    This leaves us significantly upgraded in LF, rid of Phillip's attitude/distraction, without adding salary.

    Lineup
    2B Infante
    1B Votto
    LF Bautista
    RF Bruce
    3B Frazier
    CA Mesoraco
    SS Cozart
    SP Pitcher
    CF Hamilton/Martin

    Rotation
    Latos
    Cueto
    Bailey
    Chapman
    Cingrani

    Bullpen
    CL Broxton
    SU Marshall
    SU LeCure
    MR Hoover
    MR Soria
    MR Parra (Christiani if Parra not re-signed)
    LR Simon
    Seems very similar to what I'd like to do. I think a Phillips/Bautista trade would work nicely for both sides.

  8. #80
    Start the Reactor! *BaseClogger*'s Avatar
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    Re: Your Offseason Plan in 3 Moves or Less

    Mario-Rijo, your trades aren't actually that unreasonable as they may seem at first glance, although there is no reason Colorado makes that last trade.

    RMR has the best simple plan I've seen so far, although I have no idea if that is something Toronto would be willing to do...
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

  9. #81
    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: Your Offseason Plan in 3 Moves or Less

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    I have modest ambitions this year.

    1. Trade Phillips, etc. to Toronto for Jose Bautista, etc.
    2. Sign Omar Infante for 3/25ish
    3. Trade Ludwick & Leake to Texas for Leonys Martin, Joakim Soria & and a prospects(?)

    Firstly, let me state that I think Phillips 2011 was a BABIP driven aberration. He's a 3 WAR player at this point, which is nothing to complain about but hardly irreplaceable. Infante is a essentially a 90% of Phillips player -- good defender, good contact, few walks, a bit of pop.
    Then why wouldn't the Jays just go after Infante, rather than throwing away their best player to get essentially the same thing?

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    *BaseClogger* (11-06-2013)

  11. #82
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    Re: Your Offseason Plan in 3 Moves or Less

    I really like your deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    I have modest ambitions this year.

    1. Trade Phillips, etc. to Toronto for Jose Bautista, etc.
    2. Sign Omar Infante for 3/25ish
    3. Trade Ludwick & Leake to Texas for Leonys Martin, Joakim Soria & and a prospects(?)

    Firstly, let me state that I think Phillips 2011 was a BABIP driven aberration. He's a 3 WAR player at this point, which is nothing to complain about but hardly irreplaceable. Infante is a essentially a 90% of Phillips player -- good defender, good contact, few walks, a bit of pop.

    This leaves us significantly upgraded in LF, rid of Phillip's attitude/distraction, without adding salary.

    Lineup
    2B Infante
    1B Votto
    LF Bautista
    RF Bruce
    3B Frazier
    CA Mesoraco
    SS Cozart
    SP Pitcher
    CF Hamilton/Martin

    Rotation
    Latos
    Cueto
    Bailey
    Chapman
    Cingrani

    Bullpen
    CL Broxton
    SU Marshall
    SU LeCure
    MR Hoover
    MR Soria
    MR Parra (Christiani if Parra not re-signed)
    LR Simon
    If you think small, you'll go nowhere in life.

  12. #83
    Member 757690's Avatar
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    Re: Your Offseason Plan in 3 Moves or Less

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
    Then why wouldn't the Jays just go after Infante, rather than throwing away their best player to get essentially the same thing?
    Because Infante is not the same thing as Phillips. He's really not a full time starting player. Even when he plays around 120 games, his production suffers. If you want a full time starting 2B, you don't sign Infante.

    Which is why I don't want the Reds to sign him. He ties up money just like Phillips does, but can't start everyday, and isn't as good when he does play. I'd rather the Reds sign someone like Mark Ellis or Nick Punto. They are shadows of Phillips in terms of production, but they don't hurt the team and will cost next to nothing.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

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  14. #84
    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: Your Offseason Plan in 3 Moves or Less

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Because Infante is not the same thing as Phillips. He's really not a full time starting player. Even when he plays around 120 games, his production suffers. If you want a full time starting 2B, you don't sign Infante.

    Which is why I don't want the Reds to sign him. He ties up money just like Phillips does, but can't start everyday, and isn't as good when he does play. I'd rather the Reds sign someone like Mark Ellis or Nick Punto. They are shadows of Phillips in terms of production, but they don't hurt the team and will cost next to nothing.
    I agree, but was responding to the thought that he was basically the same thing, yet the Jays even in that world would be giving away Bautista to go after the extra 10%?

  15. #85
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Your Offseason Plan in 3 Moves or Less

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
    Then why wouldn't the Jays just go after Infante, rather than throwing away their best player to get essentially the same thing?
    1. Because They may not feel the same way about Infante as I do.
    2. Because just signing Infante adds salary, which they may want to do.
    3. Because trading Bautista opens up a spot for Anthony Gose.
    4. Because word is that they're looking to shake things up.

    I didn't specify as much, but I think the Reds would have to add a decent prospect, say Lamarre or Travieso, to get just Bautista.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  16. #86
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    Re: Your Offseason Plan in 3 Moves or Less

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    1. Because They may not feel the same way about Infante as I do.
    2. Because just signing Infante adds salary, which they may want to do.
    3. Because trading Bautista opens up a spot for Anthony Gose.
    4. Because word is that they're looking to shake things up.

    I didn't specify as much, but I think the Reds would have to add a decent prospect, say Lamarre or Travieso, to get just Bautista.
    These trades seem reasonable but they leave the Reds with a pretty flawed ballclub IMO. The batting order is a big risk after the fourth spot. The starting rotation lacks depth. The bullpen has several health issues.

    All of which shows that it will be difficult for the Reds to improve much this off-season if they first have to fill the Choo spot. It's a tall order to fill that spot AND add more players who improve the club.
    Last edited by Kc61; 11-06-2013 at 11:34 PM.

  17. #87
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Your Offseason Plan in 3 Moves or Less

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    These trades seem reasonable but they leave the Reds with a pretty flawed ballclub IMO. The batting order is a big risk after the fourth spot. The starting rotation lacks depth. The bullpen has several health issues.

    All of which shows that it will be difficult for the Reds to improve much this off-season if they first have to fill the Choo spot. It's a tall order to fill that spot AND add more players who improve the club.
    Well, you can't realistically address all of those problems in 3 moves or less. If I had more moves to work with, I'd probably have done more.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  18. #88
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    Re: Your Offseason Plan in 3 Moves or Less

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Well, you can't realistically address all of those problems in 3 moves or less. If I had more moves to work with, I'd probably have done more.
    This is my point, without Choo I envision a number of moves, it's tough to fix things with only three.

    If I were going to trade Ludwick and Leake, I think I'd try for a good hitting starting player in the deal. Even if I had to add a prospect.

    No use trading away starting pitching depth without improving the offense.

    Whatever, it will be interesting just to see the Reds finally add a major league player to the roster, whoever he is.

  19. #89
    OlafTheBlack Dan's Avatar
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    Re: Your Offseason Plan in 3 Moves or Less

    1. Phillips to the Yankees for Gardner (this was proposed by someone in another thread and is probably dependent on Cano signing elsewhere, although BP at 2b and Cano at 3b or DH might appeal to them too)
    2. Sign Omar Infante to play 2b (how much would he cost?)
    3. Sign Arroyo to a 2 year $20M contract with a 3rd year option/buyout at $4M (with Stephenson likely ready by mid-year, and Chapman maybe moving to the rotation, this gives great starting depth and flexibility to trade someone like Bailey or Leake)
    Sabermetrics is this: A batter's goal is to extend the inning. Extend enough innings and you're going to score runs. Extend more innings than your opponent and you're going to score more runs than him.

    Forget the rain. It's never an official game until the Reds piss away a run between third base and home plate. - Bluegrass Redleg

  20. #90
    Member joshua's Avatar
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    Re: Your Offseason Plan in 3 Moves or Less

    My off season priority would be giving the farm system a jolt and working to compete with the Cardinals/Cubs/Pirates the last half of the decade.

    1. Trade Bailey to the Rangers for Luis Sardinas and Nick Williams

    2. Trade Brandon Phillips to the Orioles for Jonathan Schoop and Eduardo Rodriguez

    3. Sign Omar Infante to play second base until someone is ready to come up.


    Another possibility for moving Bailey would be Minnesota. They are desperate for good starting pitching. If we could get two of Buxton/Rosario/Sano for Bailey, I'd do that in a second...and of course this would depend on Minnesota being able to sign him long term, both reasons why I think this would be more of a pipe dream, but it'd be at least worth looking into.

    Other teams that would fit into possible deals: Boston and Kansas City. Both the Sox and Royals are good at developing position players, but don't seem to have much luck producing pitching.

    I just don't think the team is going to be able to make a run a the World Series next year without Choo and a re-tooling of the lineup. I'd hate to see Bailey leave for free agency and the Reds getting nothing out of it other than a draft pick. The Rays are determined to move their starting pitching in the last few years of their contracts and it ends up working out for them. There's no reason we should be doing any different when guys start getting more expensive and we have cheaper pitchers coming out of the farm system who are ready to contribute.


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