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Thread: Why we need computers calling balls and strikes

  1. #181
    Hey Cubs Fans RFS62's Avatar
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    Re: Why we need computers calling balls and strikes

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Oh it will happen, maybe in years, but count on it being there someday, my point is that hardware/software + people + cost will make the process slower than most want

    I think most owners will not want their money going to it, they'd prefer to use it on their team or themselves

    It's going to have to come from a general fund, be mandated and tested at lower levels

    Never?

    Never say never


    They used to say "never" in tennis.

    Now it's a staple, and nobody I know misses the arguments with the chair umpire.

    I was at the US Open this year, and on the outer courts, they don't have Hawkeye. It was a stark reminder of how difficult it is for humans to get it right every time with world class players and the speed they hit the ball. It added an element of uncertainty that did nothing but detract from the game, both from the players point of view and the crowd as well.

    It's coming, as it should be, and all we're doing now is going through the growing pains to get it implemented.
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    ~ Mark Twain

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  3. #182
    Beer is good!! George Anderson's Avatar
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    Re: Why we need computers calling balls and strikes

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Oh it will happen, maybe in years, but count on it being there someday, my point is that hardware/software + people + cost will make the process slower than most want

    I think most owners will not want their money going to it, they'd prefer to use it on their team or themselves

    It's going to have to come from a general fund, be mandated and tested at lower levels

    Never?

    Never say never
    There is an attitude on this board that those of us who are not ok with this idea are a bunch of old fogies who are sitting around in our rocking chairs griping about horseless carriages. My whole point has always been that there are alot of questions about this whole system and how it works and even if it will work and until it is tried at the lower levels of pro baseball then we will never begin to find and fix the problems should there be any. Someone mentioned all we need to do is flick the switch and we could have it in place in MLB as soon as next year but that is an incredibly insane idea IMO. Throw in the fact there is really little to no interest out there other than in RedsZone Land to implement this plan further tells me that this idea isn't even on MLB's radar which tells me as slow as MLB moves it will be very many years before this is even considered to be tried. I may end up liking the system, I am willing to give it a try when and if it is ever tried.
    "Boys, I'm one of those umpires that misses 'em every once in a while so if it's close, you'd better hit it." Cal Hubbard

  4. #183
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Why we need computers calling balls and strikes

    Quote Originally Posted by George Anderson View Post
    Its funny, I call my best games sitting on my couch watching the game on TV with slow motion replays and numerous different camera angles. The thing that sucks is they make me go out in the heat or cold and force me to judge a 90MPH pitch without benefit of an instant replay or different camera angle. To bad they wont just let me sit here on my couch, put the games on TV and let me some how call it from here. If I could do that then I would definitely agree with you that umpiring really is not that difficult.
    I guess if it's that difficult to call balls and strikes, why not computerize it?
    Many things in modern times have been automated, because it's difficult to have a human consistently do it perfectly.

    I'm not saying umpiring is easy.. I'm saying I don't believe there's that much of a dropoff in quality between MLB umps and minor league umps. I guess the greater point is.. Let's say baseball does computerized ball-strike calling and all the umpires decided to quit over it.. The sport would go on, and the fans would not care or even notice the difference. AAA umps that don't have to call balls-strikes would probably be an upgrade from the human element we have now.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  5. #184
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Why we need computers calling balls and strikes

    Quote Originally Posted by George Anderson View Post
    I sure do.

    However I don't think MLB will want 5 hour games because we are waiting for someone to judge several different camera angles and slow motion replays to make calls.
    The computer can call balls-strikes faster than a human .
    It will speed up games, not slow them down.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  6. #185
    Beer is good!! George Anderson's Avatar
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    Re: Why we need computers calling balls and strikes

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    AAA umps that don't have to call balls-strikes would probably be an upgrade from the human element we have now.
    This very well may be true one day.

    Again, lets try it and see if it works.

    Let me know when it is tried and I just may like it.
    "Boys, I'm one of those umpires that misses 'em every once in a while so if it's close, you'd better hit it." Cal Hubbard

  7. #186
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Why we need computers calling balls and strikes

    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling View Post
    You've already been corrected on the true percentages to use. You clearly want to use old data to justify your point of view.

    The point that was being made is that technology is getting more and more accurate all the time. Every year the excuses for not using the technology get weaker and weaker.

    As others have said, detecting whether or not a pitch is a ball or a strike is really rather easy by modern technological standards. Tech companies are routinely doing far more difficult measurements throughout many industries.

    The technology is available if the leadership of MLB chooses to implement it. I think they will eventually, likely soon.
    I haven't been corrected on anything, AD. I already explained to you that the 99% used by the new system isn't being measured in the same way. The old system claimed 97% of the strike zone called accurate. The new system is measuring 99% accuracy "within an inch" of the location. They are two different things.

    The accuracy still hasn't improved "leaps and bounds" like the hyperbole you suggested earlier.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  8. #187
    Beer is good!! George Anderson's Avatar
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    Re: Why we need computers calling balls and strikes

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    The computer can call balls-strikes faster than a human .
    It will speed up games, not slow them down.
    But if we are using technology to call balls and strikes then we should also be consistent and use technology to review every other play on the field because you and others believe technology is superior to humans. This will take alot of time.

    Like I said in other posts, let me know when the system is in place and I will pass judgement then.
    "Boys, I'm one of those umpires that misses 'em every once in a while so if it's close, you'd better hit it." Cal Hubbard

  9. #188
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Why we need computers calling balls and strikes

    Quote Originally Posted by George Anderson View Post
    This very well may be true one day.

    Again, lets try it and see if it works.

    Let me know when it is tried and I just may like it.
    So let's say hypotethically, the computer could be slightly more accurate than humans.
    There'd be two machines at each park in case one breaks down.
    Would you be in favor with that condition?
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  10. #189
    Beer is good!! George Anderson's Avatar
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    Re: Why we need computers calling balls and strikes

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    So let's say hypotethically, the computer could be slightly more accurate than humans.
    There'd be two machines at each park in case one breaks down.
    Would you be in favor with that condition?
    I really don't know.

    I am kinda a baseball traditionalist but I am always willing to look at ways to improve the game. I would say it would have to be alot more accurate than just slightly.
    "Boys, I'm one of those umpires that misses 'em every once in a while so if it's close, you'd better hit it." Cal Hubbard

  11. #190
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Why we need computers calling balls and strikes

    What causes the robot-ump to miss a call? Randomness? Or could you theorhetically throw the same pitch that results in an erroneous call over and over again?

  12. #191
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    Re: Why we need computers calling balls and strikes

    Quote Originally Posted by George Anderson View Post
    There is an attitude on this board that those of us who are not ok with this idea are a bunch of old fogies who are sitting around in our rocking chairs griping about horseless carriages. My whole point has always been that there are alot of questions about this whole system and how it works and even if it will work and until it is tried at the lower levels of pro baseball then we will never begin to find and fix the problems should there be any. Someone mentioned all we need to do is flick the switch and we could have it in place in MLB as soon as next year but that is an incredibly insane idea IMO. Throw in the fact there is really little to no interest out there other than in RedsZone Land to implement this plan further tells me that this idea isn't even on MLB's radar which tells me as slow as MLB moves it will be very many years before this is even considered to be tried. I may end up liking the system, I am willing to give it a try when and if it is ever tried.
    This is funny. I thought the same thing but then reading through this "stimulating" thread the only person I noticed that sounded exactly like an old fogey b!tch!ng from his rocking chair was M2. Liking traditional baseball the way it was meant to be played is not about age. If the system that Dug thinks is ready for use was actually ready for use, it would have already been tried at some level. It's not ready, it's not even close and it hasn't been tried.

    Bum

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    Re: Why we need computers calling balls and strikes

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    What causes the robot-ump to miss a call? Randomness? Or could you theorhetically throw the same pitch that results in an erroneous call over and over again?
    From what I've read, the PitchF/X system gets out of alignment and therefore it would be a consistent miscall. However, even when it is off it's only off by ~1 inch.

    So a question to the traditional crowd is. If we are willing to live with a human who consistently makes bad calls in/out of the strikezone and batters/pitchers just have to learn the umps strikezone. Why wouldn't we be willing to live with a automated system that may admittedly be misaligned, but wouldn't the batters/pitchers just learn the automated systems strikezone? At least with the automated system it would truly be consistent. And as for slowing the game down, I don't understand that argument the PitchF/X system is real time. It'd be just a matter of announcing the result somehow. Either an audible call over the scoreboard, or let the umpire behind the plate make the call. Lots of different ways to do it.
    "I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road." Stephen Hawking

  14. #193
    Beer is good!! George Anderson's Avatar
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    Re: Why we need computers calling balls and strikes

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveman Techie View Post
    And as for slowing the game down, I don't understand that argument the PitchF/X system is real time. .
    I was responding to someone who said umpiring was easy. I was basically referring to instances where there is a close play on the bases and the replay after 5-6 different slow motion replays from 2-3 different angles came to the conclusion the call was missed by inches. Thus fans go nuts and come to the conclusion that todays umpiring is terribly and even they could do better because for the most part it is pretty easy.

    My point is yes it is easy if you have slow motion replay and 2-3 different camera angles to see the call. But that would take an awful lot of time if we had to do that 10 times a game.
    "Boys, I'm one of those umpires that misses 'em every once in a while so if it's close, you'd better hit it." Cal Hubbard

  15. #194
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: Why we need computers calling balls and strikes

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Oh it will happen, maybe in years, but count on it being there someday, my point is that hardware/software + people + cost will make the process slower than most want

    I think most owners will not want their money going to it, they'd prefer to use it on their team or themselves

    It's going to have to come from a general fund, be mandated and tested at lower levels

    Never?

    Never say never
    Agree to disagree. I don't see it happening. Ever.
    2014 predictions:
    99-63 WS champs (Cards take 2nd WC, Mil 3rd, Pit 4th, Chi 5th)
    Bruce/Votto neck and neck MVP race (neither takes it)
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  16. #195
    Be the ball Roy Tucker's Avatar
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    Re: Why we need computers calling balls and strikes

    People seem to have this trust in technology. Like its always perfect. But its only as good as the people who design, build, and maintainit. And we are imperfect carbon-based units.

    Also remember, 2 of the 5 space shuttles crashed, Chernobyl melted dow, and the Titanic sank.

    Pay attention to the open sky


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