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Thread: Blue Jays Acquiring J.Reyes, J.Johnson and M.Buerhle

  1. #31
    Member mattfeet's Avatar
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    Re: Blue Jays Acquiring J.Johnson and M.Buerhle

    Quote Originally Posted by camisadelgolf View Post
    Hypothetically, let's say this trade ends up helping the Marlins become winners. Are people still going to hate on Loria?
    Absolutely. It's not the fact that he MADE the trade, but it's WHY he made the trade. No one scorned A's ownership last year when they traded away 3 All-Star pitchers but they also didn't sign them to $100MM+ 9 months prior. Loria tried to buy a World Series ring, failed miserably, and is now trying to get out of the contracts owed, effectively killing baseball in Miami.

    Regardless of if Miami becomes a contender or not, this trade was made for one reason only.

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  3. #32
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    Re: Blue Jays Acquiring J.Johnson and M.Buerhle

    Buerhle and Reyes, due to their production and contracts, have negative trade value.

    I wouldn't take them off waivers for free.

    Johnson is the cost of dumping those contracts.

  4. #33
    Member Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Buerhle and Reyes, due to their production and contracts, have negative trade value.

    I wouldn't take them off waivers for free.

    Johnson is the cost of dumping those contracts.
    Buehrle, sure. Reyes? Ehhh...
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.

  5. #34
    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: Blue Jays Acquiring J.Johnson and M.Buerhle

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Buerhle and Reyes, due to their production and contracts, have negative trade value.

    I wouldn't take them off waivers for free.

    Johnson is the cost of dumping those contracts.
    Reyes does not have negative trade value.

    Even Buerhle is being paid market rates.

    At some point you need to add value to the major league team, which can often be hard for a non-preferred baseball destination like Toronto. The Blue Jays are massively better today than they were yesterday, by a very large margin, and if they have the payroll capacity that this does not limit their ability to keep young talent, then i really like it for the Jays.

  6. #35
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    Re: Blue Jays Acquiring J.Johnson and M.Buerhle

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Buerhle and Reyes, due to their production and contracts, have negative trade value.

    I wouldn't take them off waivers for free.

    Johnson is the cost of dumping those contracts.
    I mean the back end of the numbers on Buehrle's contract aren't pretty, but the guy has been a model of consistency for years now even when the predictions persist that he's going to fall off a cliff. I think he's a fine addition to a decimated Toronto rotation and in a market where Anibal Sanchez may get $100 million, not cripplingly expensive.

    Reyes' contract is worse, but it seems as though there were more than a few interested suitors at the trade deadline.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

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    Re: Blue Jays Acquiring J.Johnson and M.Buerhle

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds View Post
    Buehrle, sure. Reyes? Ehhh...
    2.8 WAR and a 6 year $106M contract. And he's likley to get worse as he ages.

    Unless I have a Yankees type budget, I'd stay far away.

  8. #37
    You're being very UnDude. sonny's Avatar
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    Well, at least they have awesome uniforms, an attractive stadium and throngs of adoring fans. So there's that.
    Witty signature.

  9. #38
    Member Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    2.8 WAR and a 6 year $106M contract. And he's likley to get worse as he ages.

    Unless I have a Yankees type budget, I'd stay far away.
    Is that number for Reyes? Because the last time I'm seeing his value that low is 2010, and it's been well over that for the rest of his career.
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.

  10. #39
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    Re: Blue Jays Acquiring J.Johnson and M.Buerhle

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
    Reyes does not have negative trade value.

    Even Buerhle is being paid market rates.

    At some point you need to add value to the major league team, which can often be hard for a non-preferred baseball destination like Toronto. The Blue Jays are massively better today than they were yesterday, by a very large margin, and if they have the payroll capacity that this does not limit their ability to keep young talent, then i really like it for the Jays.
    Oh I don't disagree that the Blue Jays are a better team today then yesterday.

    But taking this much salary on can only be judged in a few years when it can be determined if the extra salaries have prevented the team from keeping cheaper and better talent.

    I also thing both players are likely to regress pretty quickly.

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    Re: Blue Jays Acquiring J.Johnson and M.Buerhle

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds View Post
    Is that number for Reyes? Because the last time I'm seeing his value that low is 2010, and it's been well over that for the rest of his career.
    According to Baseball Reference it is. I understand it can be different on other sites.

  12. #41
    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: Blue Jays Acquiring J.Johnson and M.Buerhle

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    2.8 WAR and a 6 year $106M contract. And he's likley to get worse as he ages.

    Unless I have a Yankees type budget, I'd stay far away.
    1. Reyes had 4.5 WAR

    2. The year before that he had 6

    3. It looks like he's healthy. If he is he should keep being productive. He has real offensive ability, and his defense shouldn't completely fall off the cliff (I think he's more Jimmy Rollins type).

    4. 17.5M doesn't get you that much on the open market. Jose Reyes would get just a good a contract right now. Look what Brandon Phillips got.

    5. Anyways should be able to look beyond WAR. He's 29. He can play SS adequately. He's a strong offensive threat. There are what, 5 other guys in the majors who can do that?

  13. #42
    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: Blue Jays Acquiring J.Johnson and M.Buerhle

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Oh I don't disagree that the Blue Jays are a better team today then yesterday.

    But taking this much salary on can only be judged in a few years when it can be determined if the extra salaries have prevented the team from keeping cheaper and better talent.

    I also thing both players are likely to regress pretty quickly.
    They only have Reyes until he is 34/35. You aren't really going to be able to lock up a star to more ideal age years.

    I'd consider him as about as good a free agent get (dollars, age, and production) as you are going to get.

    After seeing the contracts the Dodgers took on (and gave away prospects), the Jays got better players for a similar price.

  14. #43
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: Blue Jays Acquiring J.Johnson and M.Buerhle

    Interesting tidbit....

    Guillen's replacement, Mike Redmond, most recently managed the Blue Jays' Class A Advanced team in Dunedin, Fla., last year and should be familiar with most of the prospects Toronto is sending to Miami.
    2014 predictions:
    99-63 WS champs (Cards take 2nd WC, Mil 3rd, Pit 4th, Chi 5th)
    Bruce/Votto neck and neck MVP race (neither takes it)
    Bailey CYA winner
    Hamilton ROY & GG

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    Re: Blue Jays Acquiring J.Johnson and M.Buerhle

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  16. #45
    Member Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    So how many more times can these mega deals keep happening? There have been 2 unprecedented, enormous trades like this just in the past few months.
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.


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