2010 - 28.8%
2011 - 30.1%
2012 - 30.5%
Billy Hamilton K%:
2010 - 17.7%
2011 - 21.8%
2012 - 18.4%
As far as moving to CF, Robin Yount & Craig Biggio both made that exact change. Not to mention, Hamilton took a round of BP in CF all last season, will be playing it in the AFL then again in the spring. Will he be ready for the majors at the beginning of the season? Highly doubtful. Can he be sometime in 2013? Absolutely he can.
Also, biggio played less than 200 career games in CF. Also craig biggio is a hall of famer with 3 thousand hits and so is yount. If they are capable of that kind of production you have to find a spot for them.
Therefore, you just compared a 22 yr old who hasn't even played half a season at double a to two first ballot hall of famers. I didn't say Hamilton will be bust. I just don't think he will be playing major league center field before 2014 and that kind of talent is worth giving up if youre talking about Justin Upton in return
I compared Hamilton to no one. You said you can't just decide one day to play CF and do it. I said it's been done. No comparison was made whatsoever.
I can give you 40 million and one reasons why the Reds don't need to trade Hamilton to get J. Upton.
The first 40 million are dollars owed to Upton over the next three years. Chances are Hamilton provides close to the same value over the same years, for around $2M.
The one other reason is ths D-Backs have been trying to trade Upton for the last three years. Teams don't try to trade all-star caliber players under the age of 25 unless there are other issues beyond the box score. Rumors have swarmed Upton his whole career that he's a negative in the clubhouse, that he's not dedicated to improving or winning.
Upton isn't a bad target, but the price has to be nice. Didi, Bailey and change is more than enough. No way he justifies a top 25 prospect in the game.
Thats just another opinion. I was just speaking my opinion that i think 1. hamilton for upton is a deal worth jumping on and 2. hamilton is being is being a little over blown as a prospect. Which is all he is remember. Only 50 games in double-a. I just think that any leadoff hitter who strikes out that much and has that unimpressive of a batting average when they are his age is kinda unsettling and that justin upton is a proven major leaguer. thats all.
And there is also a reason they have held on to him for the last three seasons.
I could be very wrong, if hamilton blows up and goes crazy you can rub it in my face publicly
Last edited by Salukifan2; 11-16-2012 at 11:21 PM.
Now, players I would start a conversation about hamilton would be w/ Giancarlo Stanton, Starlin Castro, brett lawrie and that might be it.
A cheap young player player under contract for many years that is highly regarded. I doubt any of those guys are available but who knows. And there may be some players I havent thought of.
The Blue Jays didn't give up Gose, d'Arnaud, or Lawrie to obtain 90% of the Marlins payroll. So the Reds shouldn't need to deal their top prospect to obtain a player that the DBacks have been saying is available for 2 seasons now. I never said that it was all the players included. I'd include Corcino with Leake, Didi, & Stubbs. That is a solid return for a team who would want major league ready players along with some soon to be ready talent. Now 2-3 weeks from now when Upton is dealt for a package similar to Didi & Corcino you guys will be all up in arms that the Reds didn't pull the trigger. Arizona will not get as much as some think as he is soon to make extra money to go along with his 17 HRs and around 70 RBIs.
I agree that the strikeout propensity of Hamilton and Stubbs are not comparable. To put it in perspective, Dave Kingman was a player infamous for and considered synonymous with strikeouts in the 70s and 80s. During the season of his highest strikeout total his strikeout percentage was only 29.16%. I'm not going to research it, but it seems to me that Stubbs may just be in a historical class by himself when it comes to whiffing.
Still, I think Hamilton's strikeout rate has been a little higher than stated in the thread [e.g., 2009 (28.31%); 2010 (19.79%); 2011 (24.18%); 2012 (22.07%)]. So, Hamilton's strikeout rate still needs improvement - but the reports on him are that he understands this and has been working on and improving his approach to make better contact. His work ethic and desire to keep improving (again, as reported by others, like Doug Dirt) are big reasons I think Hamilton will succeed on a major league roster.
The main point of wat i was saying is that many people on this board have elevated hamilton to demi god status. To a point where youd only give him up for for someone like miguel cabrera or trout or harper and hes just not that kind of prospect.
Honestly based the numbers he has put up to this point in the minors he is almost the exact same player as dee gordon. Their numbers are honestly eerily similar. and so are there body types. The difference between the two is that hamilton has stolen more bases but also struck out alot more. and Gordon actually had more total bases even though he only stole about half as many. Now, would you have said the dodgers were crazy for trading dee gordon for upton if they did? No, you would call it a steal.
Lastly anyone who thinks hamilton is going to steal bases like that off major league pitchers an catchers is crazy. Ill give him between 40 and 60 bags a year till he is 30 but he isnt rickey henderson. He is a good player that every organization wants but he isn't bryce harper
Last edited by Salukifan2; 11-17-2012 at 01:50 AM.
2.) being a cards fan i saw how overrated bourn was in houston and in atlanta. he is .272 career hitter, only had a obp of .350 once, and has never had 200 hits. he is the most overrated leadoff hitter. Honestly, Bourn's numbers are barely better than his predecessor in houston Willy Taveras.
3.) Fowler has a good career obp but is still a .271 career batter.
Hamilton is a leadoff hitter who relies on his legs to get on base, thats evident from his his lack of extra base hits. And if he is striking out at a 20% clip thats alot worse than jackson because he had 55 xb hits, trout had 65 xb hits, and while fowler only had 42 xb hits in'12 he had 55 in'11. In 50 games at double-a hamilton had a whopping 10 xb hits.
If you're saying hamilton is similar to any of these players then he is definitely movable. A deal with any of those players for Upton would be a good trade unless you already had a stacked outfield
Last edited by Salukifan2; 11-17-2012 at 03:43 AM.
Somehow this has devolved into a discussion of Hamilton's worth as a prospect. Is he overhyped? Yes, probably. Is he untouchable? No, he should be available in the right deal. But would Upton be that "right deal?". I don't really think so. Obviously you do. Now if it's Hamilton for Upton straight up? That's a different story, but Arizona is going to want more than one guy for Upton, probably more like 3-4.
I'm only willing to deal packages including top prospects for guys who are clear difference makers and are under team control for a while for a reasonable amount of money. Latos was that guy. I'm not so sure that Upton is. His contract isn't outlandish, but it's not cheap. Regardless of what you think of him as a player, that hurts his trade value a bit, period.
I'm not going to get into the stuff about you devaluing Bourn and Fowler, which I totally disagree with, but I don't want to further stray from the topic