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Thread: Reds Sign Jonathan Broxton- 3 Years, $21m; 4th Year option

  1. #91
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    Re: Reds Sign Jonathan Broxton- 3 Years, $21m; 4th Year option

    I don't hate the move, but I don't love it either. I am nervous about Chapman to the rotation and I am nervous of Broxton staying healthy.

    I know it's a minority opinion but I would much prefer to leave Chapman alone in the 9th inning for the next 5 years.
    "Strickland Propane... Taste the meat, not the heat." - Hank Hill

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  3. #92
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    Re: Reds Sign Jonathan Broxton- 3 Years, $21m; 4th Year option

    Here's something I hadn't thought of.

    With Bray gone and Chapman to the rotation, the bullpen is overwhelmingly righty.

    Marshall is the only lefty in the bullpen.

    Cingrani is one answer. More likely IMO is the Reds will acquire a lefty set up type this off-season.

    Arredondo, Lecure, Simon, Redmond, Broxton, Hoover, Masset, all right handed.

    Something needs to change.

  4. #93
    OlafTheBlack Dan's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Sign Jonathan Broxton- 3 Years, $21m; 4th Year option

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Here's something I hadn't thought of.

    With Bray gone and Chapman to the rotation, the bullpen is overwhelmingly righty.

    Marshall is the only lefty in the bullpen.

    Cingrani is one answer. More likely IMO is the Reds will acquire a lefty set up type this off-season.

    Arredondo, Lecure, Simon, Redmond, Broxton, Hoover, Masset, all right handed.

    Something needs to change.
    Arredondo is a lefty killer. And Cingrani was expected to move to the pen when he got to the majors. He's there. I'm good with how the pen is right now. Look for Leake or Bailey (or maybe Arroyo?) to be moved at the winter meetings.

    I don't think selling high on Cueto is out of the question either if the return is great enough.
    Sabermetrics is this: A batter's goal is to extend the inning. Extend enough innings and you're going to score runs. Extend more innings than your opponent and you're going to score more runs than him.

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  5. #94
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Sign Jonathan Broxton- 3 Years, $21m; 4th Year option

    I'm very happy with this contract.
    It's really nice that it's only costing us 4 million next year too.
    That should allow for plenty of room to fill in LF.

    KC, I bet a LH reliever is on the shopping list as well.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  6. #95
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    Re: Reds Sign Jonathan Broxton- 3 Years, $21m; 4th Year option

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfan30 View Post
    I don't hate the move, but I don't love it either. I am nervous about Chapman to the rotation and I am nervous of Broxton staying healthy.

    I know it's a minority opinion but I would much prefer to leave Chapman alone in the 9th inning for the next 5 years.
    Those are inherent risks, which by definition are a part of the business and there isn't anything you can do about them. While you can take steps to insure against inherent risks with depth, they should not prevent you from taking the risk in the first place. Sure, its a risk that Chapman might not be effective in the rotation. But there's also the reward that makes the risk worthwhile. It was right to be "nervous" about Chapman being signed in the first place. Now, the risk was taken, and the reward is being realized, first as a setup reliever in pennant race, then as a closer in another playoff run, perhaps this year the reward for the risk is a nasty rotation that's even better than last year.

    To maximize an investment, a risk will usually have to be taken at some point. With Broxton's injury risk, I'm sure you are referring to his large body. Ryan Madson is skinny as a rail and he was injured. Pitchers are ALWAYS an injury risk. Let's not spend money on any of them--also known as The Jim Bowden Theory on Pitching Staffs.
    Last edited by traderumor; 11-28-2012 at 10:00 AM.
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  7. #96
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    Re: Reds Sign Jonathan Broxton- 3 Years, $21m; 4th Year option

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan View Post
    Arredondo is a lefty killer. And Cingrani was expected to move to the pen when he got to the majors. He's there. I'm good with how the pen is right now. Look for Leake or Bailey (or maybe Arroyo?) to be moved at the winter meetings.

    I don't think selling high on Cueto is out of the question either if the return is great enough.
    Thankfully, the Reds don't subscribe to the "bullpen will take care of itself" philosophy. You could be right, but I fully expect a lefty reliever to be acquired.

    Arredondo was quite poor in the second half. Not sure he will be with the club next year, and if he is he has a lot to prove.

    I still like Cingrani as a starter in AAA. If the Reds hold onto Arroyo this season, they will have room for a young starter in 2014. I'd give Cingrani a chance to get ready as a starter at AAA, before possibly converting him to the pen.

  8. #97
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    Re: Reds Sign Jonathan Broxton- 3 Years, $21m; 4th Year option

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    Those are inherent risks, which by definition are a part of the business and there isn't anything you can do about them. While you can take steps to insure against inherent risks with depth, they should not prevent you from taking the risk in the first place. Sure, its a risk that Chapman might not be effective in the rotation. But there's also the reward that makes the risk worthwhile. It was right to be "nervous" about Chapman being signed in the first place. Now, the risk was taken, and the reward is being realized, first as a setup reliever in pennant race, then as a closer in another playoff run, perhaps this year the reward for the risk is a nasty rotation that's even better than last year.

    To maximize an investment, a risk will usually have to be taken at some point. With Broxton's injury risk, I'm sure you are referring to his large body. Ryan Madson is skinny as a rail and he was injured. Pitchers are ALWAYS an injury risk. Let's not spend money on any of them--also known as The Jim Bowden Theory on Pitching Staffs.
    Brox is an injury risk.

    But the injury he had in 2011 could also be a plus.

    It might be that JB wasn't quite ready last year after the injured 2011. Maybe another year off the injury list will make him stronger and better.

    He was better late in the season when the Royals traded him to the Reds. Maybe after a winter off he will be even better.

  9. #98
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    Re: Reds Sign Jonathan Broxton- 3 Years, $21m; 4th Year option

    Hard to not like this deal, IMO. Barring an injury, this isn't a bad signing AT ALL, especially considering the influx of money that MLB is about to see and the way contracts are trending. $7MM AAV isn't a lot of money anymore.

  10. #99
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    Re: Reds Sign Jonathan Broxton- 3 Years, $21m; 4th Year option

    If Chappie somehow falls on his face as a starter, there's nothing that says he can't be put back in the 'pen to make it the force it was last season.

    But if he succeeds as a starter... whoa mama.

    PS Mario Soto is on a plane to wherever Chapman is right now, continuing the jedi change-up training.
    I have a love-hate relationship with Albert Pujols. Mostly hate.

  11. #100
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    Re: Reds Sign Jonathan Broxton- 3 Years, $21m; 4th Year option

    Look at it this way...Jonny Gomes just got a 2yr/$10MM contract. I'd MUCH rather have Broxton for only $2MM AAV more per year. This is a good signing.

  12. #101
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    Re: Reds Sign Jonathan Broxton- 3 Years, $21m; 4th Year option

    3 for 21M seems like a pretty good deal for the Reds. As recently as 2011, they were paying Francisco Cordero 12M a year to (try to) close out games. Getting Broxton for barely half that seems like a steal.

  13. #102
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    Re: Reds Sign Jonathan Broxton- 3 Years, $21m; 4th Year option

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Brox is an injury risk.

    But the injury he had in 2011 could also be a plus.

    It might be that JB wasn't quite ready last year after the injured 2011. Maybe another year off the injury list will make him stronger and better.

    He was better late in the season when the Royals traded him to the Reds. Maybe after a winter off he will be even better.
    But is it a higher injury risk? What, because he's carrying 50-70 extra pounds? I think he has the same risk as any pitcher, which means its an inherent risk and not worth mentioning as a downside factor of the signing.
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  14. #103
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    Re: Reds Sign Jonathan Broxton- 3 Years, $21m; 4th Year option

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan View Post
    Arredondo is a lefty killer. And Cingrani was expected to move to the pen when he got to the majors. He's there. I'm good with how the pen is right now. Look for Leake or Bailey (or maybe Arroyo?) to be moved at the winter meetings.

    I don't think selling high on Cueto is out of the question either if the return is great enough.
    I just don't see how they can afford to trade a starter unless they're adding another starter via trade or free agency. Not only is it unrealistic to expect everyone to stay healthy, it's crazy to think Chapman can go from closer to much more than 150 innings next season. They need rotation depth more than ever.

  15. #104
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    Re: Reds Sign Jonathan Broxton- 3 Years, $21m; 4th Year option

    I like the deal. I am a proponent of good to great bull pens. You get as many good live arms as you can and your going to win a lot of games. Its a sea change from the days of David Weathers at the closer and picking up Estaban Yan off the scrap heap to help out the pen.

  16. #105
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    Re: Reds Sign Jonathan Broxton- 3 Years, $21m; 4th Year option

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    But is it a higher injury risk? What, because he's carrying 50-70 extra pounds? I think he has the same risk as any pitcher, which means its an inherent risk and not worth mentioning as a downside factor of the signing.
    Brox had serious elbow/shoulder problems in 2011 with the Dodgers. I don't know what that means for the future, but it is something worth mentioning as a potential issue with the signing.

    A good signing, but there is an injury risk, possibly more than the average pitcher I'd guess.


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