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Thread: Reds Sign Jonathan Broxton- 3 Years, $21m; 4th Year option

  1. #46
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    Re: Reds In Serious Talks With Jonathan Broxton

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    I complained about Cordero, nonstop it seemed. But in the end, he was pretty good, all things considered. And give him credit........sure he got paid, but he was willing to sign with the Reds and pitch in HR happy GABP.

    After Chapman's historic season of closing, anyone else is doomed by the fans at trying to close games.
    In 4 years of closing, Cordero saved 86.2% of his games, amassing 150 saves.

    Chapman was at about 88% last year. In his career, if you include his holds as saves, he's still about 88%.

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    Re: Reds In Serious Talks With Jonathan Broxton

    I'm not nearly as optimistic about the "Chapman to the rotation" move as many on here are. I don't dislike the idea of having Broxton. But I dislike the idea of paying Broxton closer money and locking him into a closer's role. What if Chapman flops as a starter? I'd want him closing. And Broxton would be an especially pricey 8th inning guy. I would rather keep Chapman at closer and look for a starter via other means.

  4. #48
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    Re: Reds In Serious Talks With Jonathan Broxton

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    I'm guessing 3/24: 6/8/10.
    Sounds about right. That would put him in the same neighborhood as the contract Brandon League just signed with the Dodgers.

    The obvious concern is paying that much money to a guy who's that fat. Are his knees, ankles and back up to the contract?
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    Re: Reds In Serious Talks With Jonathan Broxton

    I would almost always prefer 1 or 2 year deals for closers. Including the Cordero deal, you can probably count on one hand the number of eight figure LTC for FA closers that have worked out well in the last several years.

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    Re: Reds In Serious Talks With Jonathan Broxton

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Sounds about right. That would put him in the same neighborhood as the contract Brandon League just signed with the Dodgers.

    The obvious concern is paying that much money to a guy who's that fat. Are his knees, ankles and back up to the contract?
    He's not fat! Just big boned .

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    Re: Reds In Serious Talks With Jonathan Broxton

    Quote Originally Posted by cincrazy View Post
    I'm not nearly as optimistic about the "Chapman to the rotation" move as many on here are. I don't dislike the idea of having Broxton. But I dislike the idea of paying Broxton closer money and locking him into a closer's role. What if Chapman flops as a starter? I'd want him closing. And Broxton would be an especially pricey 8th inning guy. I would rather keep Chapman at closer and look for a starter via other means.
    Yeah. I'm kinda of concerned about tinkering with the pitching. I mean, we had four starters with sub-4.00 e.r.a.'s. We had one of the top bullpens in all of baseball even with Madson, Masset, and Bray going down with injuries.

    If the goal is to upgrade for Leake, why not find a team that is interested in obtaining young pitching under control and unloading a quality but pricey veteran, such as Shields? I know the Rays seriously coveted Mez last season and the Reds weren't willing to deal. Why not Leake, Mez, and a middling prospect for Shields? Then keep Chappy at Closer, sign Broxton, and try and get Madson back on an incentive deal. The bullpen remains stout, possibly better, and the rotation is improved after already being pretty studly to begin with.

    The biggest problem is overall payroll. I get that.

    I just worry that Chapman in the rotation isn't going to work out. And then the experiment will have seriously messed up everyone's roles, including some guys getting traded away.
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    Re: Reds In Serious Talks With Jonathan Broxton

    Quote Originally Posted by cincrazy View Post
    He's not fat! Just big boned .
    Seems like he's both. Broxton could become the first pitcher to come out to the mound on a Segue.
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  9. #53
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    Re: Reds In Serious Talks With Jonathan Broxton

    Quote Originally Posted by cincrazy View Post
    I'm not nearly as optimistic about the "Chapman to the rotation" move as many on here are.
    An Aroldis Chapman in bullpen is safe but that's not what Chapmans are built for.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

  10. #54
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Reds In Serious Talks With Jonathan Broxton

    Put me down for liking this a lot more than guaranteeing money to one of the injured guys (Madson, Soria, Wilson, etc.). Broxton will be in his second season removed from arm surgery and I'd expect improvement from what he was in 2012. I'm also guessing that Broxton is getting an extra year in exchange for a lower salary in 2013. After 2013, the Reds would seem to have a lot more room in the budget. Votto's salary drops back down, Arroyo and Masset come off the books, and the national TV money should kick in to a $20 Million plus increase in revenue. The Reds would seem to be close to maxed out in 2013 with room in later years. I'd guess that will require longer deals, with options with significant buy-outs that serve as little more than a way to defer 2013 money into future seasons, for the Reds to compete for Free Agents under their current payroll situation.

    I'd like to see the particulars of the deal, but I like the idea of Broxton as compared to a number of the alternatives that have been linked to the Reds. The end of the deal may not look so good once its revealed, but we need to keep in mind that is likely due to the budget crunch in 2013.
    Last edited by mth123; 11-27-2012 at 03:11 AM.
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  11. #55
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    Re: Reds In Serious Talks With Jonathan Broxton

    Quote Originally Posted by Superdude View Post
    What I learned form that article: Broxton is 28! I seriously just assumed he was like 33 at this point. I'll probably cringe at this Broxton contract, but if it means Aroldis Chapman finally getting a shot at starting in 2013, pay the man whatever it takes.
    I'm the same way. I thought he was in his early 30's. This sounds better knowing that. The Reds need to give Chapman a serious look in the rotation. He has the potential to be another Randy Johnson. Worst case scenario is that Chapman fails in the rotation and goes back to being closer where we know he excelled.
    Broxton isn't quite the lights out closer Chapman was for most of last season but he's not a bad alternative. I think he will be just fine. There will be a few more "Cordero" like moments from him than we got from Chapman. Also Hoover could get some opportunities to close and grow into that position. Really, I think this signing is a win-win all the way around. These are good days to be a Reds fan.
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    Re: Reds In Serious Talks With Jonathan Broxton

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    In 4 years of closing, Cordero saved 86.2% of his games, amassing 150 saves.

    Chapman was at about 88% last year. In his career, if you include his holds as saves, he's still about 88%.
    Cordero $12.5m/year
    Chapman $3.5m/year

    It's not so much about effectiveness as it is spending a tenth of your payroll (or in Cordero's case, more) on a relatively low-priority position. Cincinnati would be fine without Broxton. Maybe the pen takes a step back, but it's still league average or above. I have full confidence Marshall or Hoover could reach an 85% save rate, and you have $8m to spend on scoring some more runs.
    "I never argue with people who say baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn't. And that's what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski

  13. #57
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Reds In Serious Talks With Jonathan Broxton

    Quote Originally Posted by WildcatFan View Post
    That seems like way too much for him. We're not far removed from the Cordero contract, and we know how that worked out.
    That's a fair point, but I think Cordero was something like 4 years, 48 million?
    (Or in that ballpark) Cordero was also older and a candidate for a decline.

    Broxton is only 28, and really looked great as a Red.

    The Reds are going to have to add a reliever in order to move Chapman to the rotation. Even if they wanted Hoover to close, they'd still need to add at least one more reliever. Why not get arguably the best FA reliever available (as opposed to trying to get lucky with a rehab or waiver wire pickup).. I trust Walt will not overpay. He's no dummy and is not going to cripple the team. I think the Reds have more money that we think they do.

    In hindsight, Cordero was overpaid but he did a great job stabilizing the bullpen. It's a valid criticism that the Reds went one year (or maybe two years) too long on him.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

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    Re: Reds In Serious Talks With Jonathan Broxton

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    That's a fair point, but I think Cordero was something like 4 years, 48 million?
    (Or in that ballpark) Cordero was also older and a candidate for a decline.

    Broxton is only 28, and really looked great as a Red.

    The Reds are going to have to add a reliever in order to move Chapman to the rotation. Even if they wanted Hoover to close, they'd still need to add at least one more reliever. Why not get arguably the best FA reliever available (as opposed to trying to get lucky with a rehab or waiver wire pickup).. I trust Walt will not overpay. He's no dummy and is not going to cripple the team. I think the Reds have more money that we think they do.

    In hindsight, Cordero was overpaid but he did a great job stabilizing the bullpen. It's a valid criticism that the Reds went one year (or maybe two years) too long on him.
    I can get on board with this point.

    My gripe with Cordero was the money, not the years. And you're right that he was due for a decline, and I'm reading similar stuff on Broxton, with his dipping velocity and K rates. But if they can keep it under something like 3/22, I'll tip my cap and trust it'll work out.
    "I never argue with people who say baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn't. And that's what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski

  15. #59
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    Re: Reds In Serious Talks With Jonathan Broxton

    The single infallible corollary of baseball, to me, is "You can never have enough good pitching" I'll not fault putting resources into more pitching. Ever. And I believe its easier to adaaddress offense by trade FA or resurgence cheaply than pitching. The Reds need pitching. Chapman may fail? OH MY. Then lets by all means just play it safe and never try and see what Aroldis in the


    R rotation might mean. Forget he could succeed because he migjt fail! Heck it is scary but you win thinkng big and taking your shot.

    .

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    Re: Reds In Serious Talks With Jonathan Broxton

    Quote Originally Posted by cincrazy View Post
    I'm not nearly as optimistic about the "Chapman to the rotation" move as many on here are. I don't dislike the idea of having Broxton. But I dislike the idea of paying Broxton closer money and locking him into a closer's role. What if Chapman flops as a starter? I'd want him closing. And Broxton would be an especially pricey 8th inning guy. I would rather keep Chapman at closer and look for a starter via other means.
    I differ with this post because I would give Chapman some time to convert to starting. He has such a great arm, I think it's worth a try, it's an experiment with very high upside.

    But I am sympathetic to cincrazy's point.

    Brox has a history of elbow and shoulder injury, and he's more hittable than Chappy (who isn't?). I don't view him as a sure thing at closer. Hoover looks like a closer, he can be the backup, but I think Brox is something of a gamble at major dollars.

    As is well known around here, I worry about bullpens. The Reds pen has good depth, but without Chapman I worry that they lack the lights out guy. Brox doesn't solve that problem for me.

    I guess the thing to do is wait for the off-season to end and see what the staff looks like then. Plenty of time to complain. Maybe they will add still another good bullpen arm in their deals.
    Last edited by Kc61; 11-27-2012 at 10:41 AM.


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