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Thread: Trading a starting pitcher

  1. #46
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    Re: Trading a starting pitcher

    Didi and Corcino (or Cingrani) could be the mainstays of a very nice package. Maybe add in Heisey and, say, a Vidal.
    Agreed. Personally, I'd rather they trade Cozart because I think Didi's upside is high (and I think he's ready to play in the bigs right now, supplying a very good glove and developing bat). But I suspect any trading partner would look at it like that too. On the pitching prospects side, I'd rather they deal Corcino than Cingrani. Really like Cingrani.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

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  3. #47
    Member mdccclxix's Avatar
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    Re: Trading a starting pitcher

    For an example of what players were ranked before they were traded or lost their prospect status:

    Sickels
    Travis Wood C+ 2010
    Dave Sappelt C+ 2012
    Ronald Torreyes C+ 2012
    = Sean Marshall

    Current Reds trade bait:
    Mike Leake B/B+ 2010
    Chris Heisey B 2010

    Daniel Corcino B 2012
    Zach Cozart B- 2012
    Tony Cingrani B- 2012
    Didi Gregorious C+ 2012
    Henry Rodriguez C+ 2012
    Neftali Soto C+ 2012
    David Vidal C+ 2012

    These rankings are from last year, so I expect some changes.

    Leaving out Frazier, Hamilton, Stephanson and Mesoraco for obvious reasons.

    Another trade to reference would be Sulbaran (C+) and Donnie Joseph (NR) for Broxton. Of course Joseph played back up to a C in all likelihood last season.

    So it appears to me the Reds have plenty to trade without giving up Leake or Bailey. It's a matter, in the end, of finding a team that wants what you have. I look at the mega deals with the Marlins, Jays, Sox and Dodgers, I don't know if a single 1-3 organizationally ranked prospect was traded. This leaves hope the Reds can land a big enough fish for the OF. But I definitely like their chances at finding a LHRP that can prevent Cingrani from going to the pen before we know if he can get AAA hitters out as a starter.

    Found this interesting from 2010: Josh Fellhauer, OF, Grade C+: David DeJesus type. I'd like to see him make the 5th OF spot to platoon with Heisey in LF if we can't sign Ludwick.
    Last edited by mdccclxix; 11-29-2012 at 12:11 PM.

  4. #48
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    Re: Trading a starting pitcher

    Quote Originally Posted by mdccclxix View Post
    For an example of what players were ranked before they were traded or lost their prospect status:

    Sickels
    Travis Wood C+ 2010
    Dave Sappelt C+ 2012
    Ronald Torreyes C+ 2012
    = Sean Marshall

    Current Reds trade bait:
    Mike Leake B/B+ 2010
    Chris Heisey B 2010

    Daniel Corcino B 2012
    Zach Cozart B- 2012
    Tony Cingrani B- 2012
    Didi Gregorious C+ 2012
    Henry Rodriguez C+ 2012
    Neftali Soto C+ 2012
    David Vidal C+ 2012

    These rankings are from last year, so I expect some changes.

    Leaving out Frazier, Hamilton, Stephanson and Mesoraco for obvious reasons.

    Another trade to reference would be Sulbaran (C+) and Donnie Joseph (NR) for Broxton. Of course Joseph played back up to a C in all likelihood last season.

    So it appears to me the Reds have plenty to trade without giving up Leake or Bailey. It's a matter, in the end, of finding a team that wants what you have. .
    Referencing trades for Marshall and Broxton are not very instructive IMO. Relief pitchers usually don't bring back as much as a regular position player does.
    Broxton was an impending free agent with two months left on his contract.

    These are not good comparisons for a trade that would bring the Reds a starting level left fielder or CF for 2013 IMO.

  5. #49
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Trading a starting pitcher

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    DFA Redmond and Negron. Sign Scott Rolen as a 300 PA 3B. Frazier becomes the answer in LF. Trade some combo of those guys for a lefty bat to share 3B with Rolen and another lefty bat to lead-off and share CF with Stubbs. They'd be ready to win with those moves IMO.
    I like that idea.
    Really, if Rolen can play 1/2 season, they'd only need a part time 3b or LF (Frazier could play 3b when Rolen sits).
    The only downside is that our backup SS (likely a weak player) would get more ABs than Valdez, since Rolen can't fill in at 2b like Cairo could. But I could live with that.

    The only minor disagreement is that I don't see as much urgency to upgrade CF. Sure, it would be nice, but Billy H is going to get a lot of ABs to sink or swim, probably starting next year. I would not expend a lot of resources on a CF unless we really can't find away to add a LF/3b type.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  6. #50
    Member mdccclxix's Avatar
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    Re: Trading a starting pitcher

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Referencing trades for Marshall and Broxton are not very instructive IMO. Relief pitchers usually don't bring back as much as a regular position player does.
    Broxton was an impending free agent with two months left on his contract.

    These are not good comparisons for a trade that would bring the Reds a starting level left fielder or CF for 2013 IMO.
    Right, but you can see my point that it didn't take much to acquire these players. The trade bait on the table, which doesn't include Frazier, Hamilton, Stephanson and Mesoraco, is all rated higher than the C+ style prospect that I sited for the relievers. Don't discount Sean Marshall either, btw, dude was the most valuable reliever in baseball the 2-3 years prior to 2012. So, I think a quality LF, CF, or 3b platoon guy to fill the bench, and a very good LHRP could be in order if the Reds find the right partner. You could shoot higher, though, with the current list of prospects.

  7. #51
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    Re: Trading a starting pitcher

    Quote Originally Posted by mdccclxix View Post
    Right, but you can see my point that it didn't take much to acquire these players. The trade bait on the table, which doesn't include Frazier, Hamilton, Stephanson and Mesoraco, is all rated higher than the C+ style prospect that I sited for the relievers. Don't discount Sean Marshall either, btw, dude was the most valuable reliever in baseball the 2-3 years prior to 2012. So, I think a quality LF, CF, or 3b platoon guy to fill the bench, and a very good LHRP could be in order if the Reds find the right partner. You could shoot higher, though, with the current list of prospects.
    We'll see. You know, Marshall was the right situation - Cubs rebuilding, didn't want to pay him, was an impending free agent on the last year of contract.

    I think the answer to all this may be Ludwick. I could see the Reds adding a short term CFer without giving up much. I happen to think they may sign Victorino, although I'm not a huge fan of such a move.

    I also could see the Reds filling the bench and bullpen and getting some pitching depth on the cheap.

    But if Ludwick doesn't re-sign, I think getting a LF of quality who can hit will require a more significant package. There's nobody in the pipeline for the Reds, they will need a real hitter out there, and I think we are talking a serious package involving guys like Corcino, Gregorius or guys of equivalent value.

  8. #52
    Member mdccclxix's Avatar
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    Re: Trading a starting pitcher

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    We'll see. You know, Marshall was the right situation - Cubs rebuilding, didn't want to pay him, was an impending free agent on the last year of contract.

    I think the answer to all this may be Ludwick. I could see the Reds adding a short term CFer without giving up much. I happen to think they may sign Victorino, although I'm not a huge fan of such a move.

    I also could see the Reds filling the bench and bullpen and getting some pitching depth on the cheap.

    But if Ludwick doesn't re-sign, I think getting a LF of quality who can hit will require a more significant package. There's nobody in the pipeline for the Reds, they will need a real hitter out there, and I think we are talking a serious package involving guys like Corcino, Gregorius or guys of equivalent value.
    I guess what's encouraging is the number of players the Reds could offer to suit another team. Take a look at Alex Meyer's 2012 report from Sickels:

    4) Alex Meyer, RHP, Grade B: I respect his upside as a guy with two dominating pitches, but his command is still a work in progress, and such tall pitchers often struggle to keep their mechanics in line. Could be a superior starter, a closer, or a failure.

  9. #53
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: Trading a starting pitcher

    Has Youkilis been signed yet?
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread


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