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Thread: Span to Nationals

  1. #16
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    Re: Span to Nationals

    If the Reds only had to give up Cingrani, then I would have done it in a heartbeat. I really thought it would take two or three players to get Span.

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  3. #17
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Span to Nationals

    Quote Originally Posted by klw View Post
    for the Nats 2011 #1 pick, Alex Meyer.

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/1...nard-span.html



    Here are Meyer's stats.
    http://www.baseball-reference.com/mi...ww.typepad.com

    I am guessing the equivalent offer would have been if the Reds sent Stephenson to the Twins. Meyer is older and was taken about 5 slots ahead of Stephenson in 2011. He was ranked by BA as the Nats #6 prospect prior to 12.
    Meyer may be a great arm but he's a long way from the top if he wants to rock and roll. If I'm the nationals, i'm looking to stay on the top of the rock and roll charts so I pull the trigger without remorse.
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  4. #18
    Two-Time Batting Champ Edd Roush's Avatar
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    Re: Span to Nationals

    I would have easily paid one of Cingrani/Corcino/Stephenson for Span. What's not to like about a .357 career OBP in the leadoff spot with some solid speed and defense?

    Here is a fangraphs' take
    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index...an-from-twins/

  5. #19
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    Re: Span to Nationals

    Quote Originally Posted by Edd Roush View Post
    I would have easily paid one of Cingrani/Corcino/Stephenson for Span. What's not to like about a .357 career OBP in the leadoff spot with some solid speed and defense?

    Here is a fangraphs' take
    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index...an-from-twins/
    Span is a very good outfielder defensively, no doubt. As a hitter, I'm not enthused.

    His lifetime percentages are very good because of outstanding seasons in 2008 and 2009. Unfortunately, it's now almost 2013.

    Span's lifetime OBP may be .357 but his highest the last three seasons was .342. He also had .331 and .328.

    Span's OPS in 2010 and 2011 was under .700 -- .679 and .687. It was a bit higher this year, but he has little power, with 23 homers in five seasons.

    WIth Hamilton on the way, I'm really glad the Reds didn't trade a major prospect in this player.
    Last edited by Kc61; 11-29-2012 at 09:52 PM.

  6. #20
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    Re: Span to Nationals

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Meyer may be a great arm but he's a long way from the top if he wants to rock and roll. If I'm the nationals, i'm looking to stay on the top of the rock and roll charts so I pull the trigger without remorse.
    Agreed. Also, Corcino was ranked ahead of him in Sickels' mid-season top prospects list. Seems like Meyer is more in the Corcino/Cingrani neck of the prospect woods than Stephenson. I suspect we'd be doing cartwheels if the Reds had moved a non-Stephenson arm for Span. IIRC, many thought Span would cost Bailey or Leake plus stuff.
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  7. #21
    The rest is drama. marcshoe's Avatar
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    Re: Span to Nationals

    Span wasn't really my choice, for the reasons listed above. I'd love to get an upgrade in left along with somebody like Victorino, but I really would like a better bat than Span.

    Of course if they could manage Fowler, that would be nice.

  8. #22
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    Re: Span to Nationals

    Quote Originally Posted by marcshoe View Post
    Of course if they could manage Fowler, that would be nice.
    The market for Fowler is shrinking rapidly. Jocketty could wind up the last shopper willing to offer anything of real value.
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  9. #23
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    Re: Span to Nationals

    Would Leake, Arredondo, and Corcino get the deal done for Fowler? Jocketty would then have to sign at least one (and likely two) AAAA lifers or gamble on a Scott Kazmir or Aaron Cooke-type guys. He'd also likely have to gamble on a guy like Jason Bay for LF, with Xavier Paul and Chris Heisey as backups.

    But yeah, I'd love to see Fowler in Cincinnati.

    Fowler CF
    Phillips 2B
    Votto 1B
    Frazier 3B
    Bruce RF
    Bay LF
    Haniraco C
    Cozart/ Gregorius SS

    That's a solid team, IMO. If Hamilton can move up mid-season, Fowler drops to the second spot in the lineup and into LF. (Imagine that top of the order.) Phillips would probably move to the sixth spot in the lineup (which suits his bat much, much better, IMO).
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  10. #24
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    Re: Span to Nationals

    I don't think Jocketty will do anything to bring in a CF. Why give away valuable trading chips for a Rent-A-Player who at most will be a half season fill-in until Hamilton is ready? He already has Drew Stubbs to keep the position warm until probably mid-June and Billy Hamilton proves he is ready for the big time.

    Look, I'm not advocating rushing Billy. I'd love to see him get a full year in 2013 in the minors. But I doubt the Reds will allow a PR magnet like Hamilton to develop properly.

    Seriously, why trade away valuable trading chips for a guy who will on the bench come July? Use your chips to get a bopper in LF, or an upgrade over Todd Fraizer at 3B.
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  11. #25
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    Re: Span to Nationals

    I'm starting to believe that the Reds will pass (or whiff) on the main marquis CF targets (Bourn, Span, Fowler and Pagan) and look at adding a platoon partner for Stubbs as a bridge to Billy. Victorino, Crisp or DeJesus would be my guess, but a rental for a year on Ellsbury would be nice if the Red Sox' price were right. Possibly send them a couple of nice pieces if they take Bronson too (maybe make a deal with Bronson on his contract). Use Bronson's money to possibly make room for a deal on a LF like Willingham or Choo.


    CF Jacoby Ellsbury
    2B Brandon Phillips
    1B Joey Votto
    LF Josh Willingham/Shin-Soo Choo
    RF Jay Bruce
    3B Todd Frazier
    SS Zach Cozart
    CA Ryan Hanigan

  12. #26
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    Re: Span to Nationals

    This is disappointing. Span was my first choice. The Nats are being aggressive and addressing weaknesses to improve on the best record in baseball last year. The Reds are weakening their bullpen in order to experiment in the rotation.

  13. #27
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    Re: Span to Nationals

    Quote Originally Posted by Edd Roush View Post
    I would have easily paid one of Cingrani/Corcino/Stephenson for Span. What's not to like about a .357 career OBP in the leadoff spot with some solid speed and defense?

    Here is a fangraphs' take
    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index...an-from-twins/
    My guess is that you have never watched Stephenson pitch then. Cingrani or Corcino I get. Not sure I would pull the trigger, but I would get where someone else would. But Stephenson is in a different boat. He is a different breed.

  14. #28
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    Re: Span to Nationals

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Would Leake, Arredondo, and Corcino get the deal done for Fowler? Jocketty would then have to sign at least one (and likely two) AAAA lifers or gamble on a Scott Kazmir or Aaron Cooke-type guys. He'd also likely have to gamble on a guy like Jason Bay for LF, with Xavier Paul and Chris Heisey as backups.

    But yeah, I'd love to see Fowler in Cincinnati.

    Fowler CF
    Phillips 2B
    Votto 1B
    Frazier 3B
    Bruce RF
    Bay LF
    Haniraco C
    Cozart/ Gregorius SS

    That's a solid team, IMO. If Hamilton can move up mid-season, Fowler drops to the second spot in the lineup and into LF. (Imagine that top of the order.) Phillips would probably move to the sixth spot in the lineup (which suits his bat much, much better, IMO).
    As a charter member of the Fowler to Cincinnati fan club, I heartily "like" this post.

  15. #29
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Span to Nationals

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/1...er-fowler.html

    Coors creation. Not worth unloading the farm for IMO. If he could be had for spare minor leaguers like Vidal, Lamarre, Lotzkar, etc, I'd take him. No need to tell me it will never happen. I know it will take a lot more than that.

    For a short term fix, I'd rather go after Dejesus as a platoon partner for Stubbs. I think he would exactly fill the need for on base, production against RHP and a game that isn't dependent on his home park. He could probably be had for spare parts, and could still be useful in the LF mix if/when Hamilton arrives.

    The Reds already have their central players on hand (Votto, Bruce, Phillips). They have specific needs that should be targeted rather than gutting the depth to acquire a "name" that may not really provide much more production than a startegically used tandem could provide. I'd bet a Dejesus/Stubbs tandem, platooned properly, would provide more CF production than nearly every team in the NL. I'd guess they'd be in the top 5. Kemp and McCutcheon would be better, maybe Jay in St. Louis (he's better than all these names IMO) as well, but after that, I'm having a hard time seeing a more productive situation in CF in the NL. I think they'd outproduce BJ Upton, Michael Bourne, Shane Victorino, Angel Pagan, Dexter Fowler or Denard Span for a fraction of the cost either in talent to acquire or talent to be jettisoned to fit them into the budget. The long term solution is on the way. Big acquistions are not needed. Getting Stubbs on the bench againt RHP improves the situation by leaps and bounds. Subbing a guy who provides an .800+ OPS against RHP would make this position one of the team's strengths.
    Last edited by mth123; 11-30-2012 at 06:27 AM.
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  16. #30
    Two-Time Batting Champ Edd Roush's Avatar
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    Re: Span to Nationals

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Span is a very good outfielder defensively, no doubt. As a hitter, I'm not enthused.

    His lifetime percentages are very good because of outstanding seasons in 2008 and 2009. Unfortunately, it's now almost 2013.

    Span's lifetime OBP may be .357 but his highest the last three seasons was .342. He also had .331 and .328.

    Span's OPS in 2010 and 2011 was under .700 -- .679 and .687. It was a bit higher this year, but he has little power, with 23 homers in five seasons.

    WIth Hamilton on the way, I'm really glad the Reds didn't trade a major prospect in this player.
    You are correct, Span may never return to his 2008 & 2009 levels. But, that .342 OBP was just last year. That is a heck of an improvement over what the Reds got from the leadoff spot last year.

    I am not too worried about slugging out of the leadoff spot. I just want guys on base for Phillips/Votto/Bruce/Left fielder.

    He also is a bargain the next two years at $4.75 mil for 2013 and $6.5 mil in 2014. Plus, Denard would very likely be worth the $9 mil team option in 2015.

    I hope Walt has something else up his sleeve, because Denard would have been a great addition at the price.


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