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Thread: Reds named 'Organization of the Year' by Baseball America

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    Red's fan mbgrayson's Avatar
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    Reds named 'Organization of the Year' by Baseball America

    I was just reading through my new issue of Baseball America (December 11, 2012), and I see that the Reds have been named the 'Organization of the Year' for 2012 by Baseball America Magazine. I can't find a link yet, and I will post it when I find it.

    The main thrust of the article is how many of their starters the Reds have drafted and developed themselves. A nice read.
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    Re: Reds named 'Organization of the Year' by Baseball America

    And Redszone named them "Worst Organization Ever."

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    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Reds named 'Organization of the Year' by Baseball America

    Quote Originally Posted by gilpdawg View Post
    And Redszone named them "Worst Organization Ever."
    They should be more like the Marlins and Pirates.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

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    Re: Reds named 'Organization of the Year' by Baseball America

    The main thrust of the article is how many of their starters the Reds have drafted and developed themselves.
    I've been waiting for the mainstream baseball media (meaning the outlets that cover the bogs, not BA itself) to acknowledge this. You'd think that when a small/mid market team wins 97 games and goes to the playoffs the "experts" would pick up on it. But there seems to be a blind spot in the media when it comes to seeing what has made the Reds team they are.
    Last edited by lollipopcurve; 12-01-2012 at 10:49 AM.
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    Re: Reds named 'Organization of the Year' by Baseball America

    Great FO performance for the past few years. Couldn't be happier.

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    Re: Reds named 'Organization of the Year' by Baseball America

    The Reds are doing a lot of things right these days. What's really impressive is how quickly the system restocked after the Latos trade. It's been three decades since the Reds could boast a farm system that was this prolific.
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    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Reds named 'Organization of the Year' by Baseball America

    Ironic considering just last winter, before the Latos trade, there was the ongoing joke in various forms of WJ being asleep at the switch, that Dusty is an ignoramous, and hiring Bavasi would be the end of the free world. And that from people who seem like they know what they're talking about Did I leave out the rants about Buckley's drafting weaknesses?
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    Re: Reds named 'Organization of the Year' by Baseball America

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    Ironic considering just last winter, before the Latos trade, there was the ongoing joke in various forms of WJ being asleep at the switch, that Dusty is an ignoramous, and hiring Bavasi would be the end of the free world. And that from people who seem like they know what they're talking about Did I leave out the rants about Buckley's drafting weaknesses?
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    Re: Reds named 'Organization of the Year' by Baseball America

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    Ironic considering just last winter, before the Latos trade, there was the ongoing joke in various forms of WJ being asleep at the switch, that Dusty is an ignoramous, and hiring Bavasi would be the end of the free world. And that from people who seem like they know what they're talking about Did I leave out the rants about Buckley's drafting weaknesses?
    I remember ragging on Jocketty there for a while. In retrospect, he pretty much shifted the whole organizational mindset from talent accumulation to winning. Dusty and all, I'd say the team's in pretty good hands for the time being.

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    Re: Reds named 'Organization of the Year' by Baseball America

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    Ironic considering just last winter, before the Latos trade, there was the ongoing joke in various forms of WJ being asleep at the switch, that Dusty is an ignoramous, and hiring Bavasi would be the end of the free world. And that from people who seem like they know what they're talking about Did I leave out the rants about Buckley's drafting weaknesses?
    Considering that prior to last winter Jocketty hadn't made any significant successful moves for several years the "asleep at the switch" analogy was spot on. Maybe he was just waiting for the right time to strike. But to say Jocketty built the club was way off. Prior to last year the only true feather in his cap was the signing of Aroldis Chapman (and even that one was risky, when you take the $30 million into consideration for a middle reliever, didn't truly justify itself until 2012 when Chapman became an elite closer.) Jocketty inherited a great foundation and waited a long time until he felt the time was right to juggle some pieces and take a shot at a championship. When he finally woke up and took action his moves worked like a charm.

    Dusty is an ignoramus when it comes to lineup construction and in-game strategy. Some of the most basic tenets of modern baseball are over his head. Fortunately for the Reds Dusty's people skills are outstanding.

    Bryan Price is the unsung hero who has really put the Reds over the top in my opinion.
    Last edited by AtomicDumpling; 12-03-2012 at 07:28 AM.

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    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Reds named 'Organization of the Year' by Baseball America

    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling View Post
    Considering that prior to last winter Jocketty hadn't made any significant successful moves for several years the "asleep at the switch" analogy was spot on. Maybe he was just waiting for the right time to strike. But to say Jocketty built the club was way off. Prior to last year the only true feather in his cap was the signing of Aroldis Chapman (and even that one was risky, when you take the $30 million into consideration for a middle reliever, didn't truly justify itself until 2012 when Chapman became an elite closer.) Jocketty inherited a great foundation and waited a long time until he felt the time was right to juggle some pieces and take a shot at a championship. When he finally woke up and took action his moves worked like a charm.

    Dusty is an ignoramus when it comes to lineup construction and in-game strategy. Some of the most basic tenets of modern baseball are over his head. Fortunately for the Reds Dusty's people skills are outstanding.

    Bryan Price is the unsung hero who has really put the Reds over the top in my opinion.
    Jocketty hired Price in 2009. Jocketty also didn't trade the farm for the rental of Cliff Lee or others, which allowed for the later acquisition of Latos.

    Many moves are made possible by previous moves and non-moves. Everything cannot be viewed purely at that moment.

    To say that he was asleep at the switch is embarrassing. It is obvious that he would've made moves if they were there at the time.

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    KungFu Fighter AtomicDumpling's Avatar
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    Re: Reds named 'Organization of the Year' by Baseball America

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    Jocketty hired Price in 2009. Jocketty also didn't trade the farm for the rental of Cliff Lee or others, which allowed for the later acquisition of Latos.

    Many moves are made possible by previous moves and non-moves. Everything cannot be viewed purely at that moment.

    To say that he was asleep at the switch is embarrassing. It is obvious that he would've made moves if they were there at the time.
    If a GM does not make moves it is fair to ask if he is not making moves on purpose or if he is simply unable to get the job done. I am not a critic of Walt Jocketty right now, but I can clearly see why some people were prior to last year. He failed to improve the team for a stretch of several years in a row. If you can't see why that is a problem then you weren't paying attention. I don't buy the excuse that there were no opportunities available to him. Other teams were able to create ways to improve their teams while Jocketty was sitting on his hands. A good GM is able to find ways to improve the team on a regular basis, especially when they inherit a loaded farm system. I think Jocketty did a great job in 2012, but that followed several seasons where his performance was suspect. Hopefully he can remain active and continue to find and acquire upgrades.

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    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Reds named 'Organization of the Year' by Baseball America

    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling View Post
    Considering that prior to last winter Jocketty hadn't made any significant successful moves for several years the "asleep at the switch" analogy was spot on. Maybe he was just waiting for the right time to strike. But to say Jocketty built the club was way off. Prior to last year the only true feather in his cap was the signing of Aroldis Chapman (and even that one was risky, when you take the $30 million into consideration for a middle reliever, didn't truly justify itself until 2012 when Chapman became an elite closer.) Jocketty inherited a great foundation and waited a long time until he felt the time was right to juggle some pieces and take a shot at a championship. When he finally woke up and took action his moves worked like a charm.

    Dusty is an ignoramus when it comes to lineup construction and in-game strategy. Some of the most basic tenets of modern baseball are over his head. Fortunately for the Reds Dusty's people skills are outstanding.

    Bryan Price is the unsung hero who has really put the Reds over the top in my opinion.
    Yet, they've just blindly stumbled their way to division crowns with 90+ win seasons for 2 of the last 3 years. I hope your evaluator for whatever job you do is more fair in their assessment of your performance.

    It's OK to think that a leader isn't doing his job the way you would do it, but to call anyone an ignoramous who clearly can manage a team (three different ones) to the playoffs, no mean feat, and to say a GM is asleep at the switch based on "no significant moves until," yet that GM has constructed a winning program, that's just plain disingenuous and reveals a level of ignorance from the one holding that opinion.
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    KungFu Fighter AtomicDumpling's Avatar
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    Re: Reds named 'Organization of the Year' by Baseball America

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    Yet, they've just blindly stumbled their way to division crowns with 90+ win seasons for 2 of the last 3 years. I hope your evaluator for whatever job you do is more fair in their assessment of your performance.

    It's OK to think that a leader isn't doing his job the way you would do it, but to call anyone an ignoramous who clearly can manage a team (three different ones) to the playoffs, no mean feat, and to say a GM is asleep at the switch based on "no significant moves until," yet that GM has constructed a winning program, that's just plain disingenuous and reveals a level of ignorance from the one holding that opinion.
    Thanks for the personal insult. I don't think calling someone ignorant is worthy of the standards of the Old Red Guard.

    It wasn't me who started the Jocketty is asleep at the switch bandwagon. I was just pointing out that it was not an unreasonable topic after someone said it was.

    As I have said before, I think Jocketty has done a good job in the last 12 months. I also think he inherited a very strong farm system and a stellar core of young major league players. This team was bound for excellence before Jocketty took over. He did not build this team into a contender all by himself. I think most reasonable people understand that.

    If you believe Jocketty did such a great job prior to 2012 then maybe you can explain the moves he made that built this team into a winner. The key components were all here when he took over with the exception of Chapman. Prior to 2012 the acquisition of Chapman was the only unquestionably good player move he had made in several years. I can certainly see why some people saw fit to question Jocketty's job performance (or lack of performance). One good move in several years is clearly quite dubious, especially when there were some glaring holes in the lineup and plenty of trading chips available and plenty of other teams finding ways to fill their holes while Jocketty couldn't.

    Jocketty did a great job in 2012. I think most everyone agrees on that.
    Last edited by AtomicDumpling; 12-03-2012 at 08:45 AM.

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    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Reds named 'Organization of the Year' by Baseball America

    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling View Post
    Considering that prior to last winter Jocketty hadn't made any significant successful moves for several years the "asleep at the switch" analogy was spot on. Maybe he was just waiting for the right time to strike. But to say Jocketty built the club was way off. Prior to last year the only true feather in his cap was the signing of Aroldis Chapman .
    I think Rolen has to be considered a great move.

    Yep. And another thing to consider.. After the Reds won the division in 2010, there was a lot of young talent to sort out. The Reds used 2011 to sort some of that out. Now true, they possibly missed the opportunity to "sell high" on some guys, but at the same time, they didn't foolishly count on Travis Wood to be an ace going forward or make other assumptions. They kept Janish around and bought in Valdez in case Cozart fell flat on his face.

    Honestly, the slower deliberate style really paid off, as opposed to grabbing every available pitcher off possible and throwing them against the wall, hoping they'd stick.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

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