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Thread: Giancarlo Stanton

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  1. #1
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Giancarlo Stanton

    I'm bored, and I saw them bantering about on the Sundeck what it would take to get him, and thought it might make for some interesting proposals.

    They think the conversation starts with Hamilton. I don't do the deal if it does.

    According to the Cincinnati Reds website, here are their top 20 prospects:

    1. Hamilton
    2. Stephenson
    3. Cingrani
    4. Corcino
    5. Gregorius
    6. Travieso
    7. Lamarre
    8. Lotzkar
    9. Soto, Neftali
    10. Wright, Ryan
    11. Buckley, Sean
    12. Greene, Brodie
    13. Romano, Sal
    14. Winker, Jesse
    15. Cisco, Drew
    16. Rodriguez, Henry
    17. Rosa, Gabriel
    18. Waldrop, Kyle
    19. Rodriguez, Yorman
    20. Garrett, Amir

    I'm surprised Donald Lutz isn't on there. But oh well.

    First off, I'd consider trading them Chapman, and not Hamilton. I'd love to not trade either. But if I trade them Chapman, then the rest of the compensation won't be that much.

    1. Offer them 1 of either Leake/Bailey. If they're trying to keep down payroll, they choose Leake.
    2. Ondrusek, Stubbs (throw-in).
    3. Stephenson, Corcino, Gregorius, Lamarre, Lotzkar, Soto, Lutz, Yorman Rodriguez, Juan Duran.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  2. #2
    Senor Votto Degenerate39's Avatar
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    Re: Giancarlo Stanton

    Hamilton, Leake, Corcino and Soto
    Most Vottomatic Player

  3. #3
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Giancarlo Stanton

    I'll play.

    Heisey, Mesoraco, Corcino, Soto and Lotzkar for Stanton and Rob Brantley
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  4. #4
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: Giancarlo Stanton

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    I'll play.

    Heisey, Mesoraco, Corcino, Soto and Lotzkar for Stanton and Rob Brantley
    Yeah, I forgot about Mez. I'd include him in the deal.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  5. #5
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: Giancarlo Stanton

    What if the Marlins would accept Chapman and Hamilton straight up for Stanton? Would you do that deal?
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  6. #6
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Giancarlo Stanton

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    What if the Marlins would accept Chapman and Hamilton straight up for Stanton? Would you do that deal?
    If Stanton would extend right now, I would do that.

  7. #7
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Giancarlo Stanton

    Hamilton and Bailey as the centerpieces. Or Chapman alone as centerpiece.

    Otherwise it would be too easy for another team that wants him to top the Reds offer.

  8. #8
    OlafTheBlack Dan's Avatar
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    Re: Giancarlo Stanton

    My offer starts with Chapman and Hamilton.
    Sabermetrics is this: A batter's goal is to extend the inning. Extend enough innings and you're going to score runs. Extend more innings than your opponent and you're going to score more runs than him.

    Forget the rain. It's never an official game until the Reds piss away a run between third base and home plate. - Bluegrass Redleg

  9. #9
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Giancarlo Stanton

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan View Post
    My offer starts with Chapman and Hamilton.
    I don't mean anything personal when I say this, but that's absurd.

    Stanton isn't worth that. He's good but that's a ransom.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  10. #10
    OlafTheBlack Dan's Avatar
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    Re: Giancarlo Stanton

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    I don't mean anything personal when I say this, but that's absurd.

    Stanton isn't worth that. He's good but that's a ransom.
    Um Stanton is a generational talent. He's definitely worth it. He's putting up Hank Aaron and Griffey Jr. numbers. You're telling me you wouldn't move heaven and earth to acquire either of them after they only spent two years I'm the majors?
    Last edited by Dan; 12-03-2012 at 10:39 AM. Reason: damn you auto correct
    Sabermetrics is this: A batter's goal is to extend the inning. Extend enough innings and you're going to score runs. Extend more innings than your opponent and you're going to score more runs than him.

    Forget the rain. It's never an official game until the Reds piss away a run between third base and home plate. - Bluegrass Redleg

  11. #11
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Giancarlo Stanton

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan View Post
    Um Stanton is a generational talent. He's definitely worth it. He's putting up Hank Aaron and Griffey Jr. numbers. You're telling me you wouldn't move heaven and earth to acquire either of them after they only spent two years I'm the majors?
    There were 17 players who recorded more WAR than Stanton's 5.8 last year. Must be a lot of generational talents in baseball right now.

    In the peak of his career, Griffey was a 7-10 win player. Now THAT is a generational talent.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  12. #12
    OlafTheBlack Dan's Avatar
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    Re: Giancarlo Stanton

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    There were 17 players who recorded more WAR than Stanton's 5.8 last year. Must be a lot of generational talents in baseball right now.

    In the peak of his career, Griffey was a 7-10 win player. Now THAT is a generational talent.
    Except for perhaps Trout, none of those players was 22 or under. (I haven't checked) And Griffey's first 7+ WAR season (using b-r.com) wasn't until his age 23 season.
    Sabermetrics is this: A batter's goal is to extend the inning. Extend enough innings and you're going to score runs. Extend more innings than your opponent and you're going to score more runs than him.

    Forget the rain. It's never an official game until the Reds piss away a run between third base and home plate. - Bluegrass Redleg

  13. #13
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Giancarlo Stanton

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    There were 17 players who recorded more WAR than Stanton's 5.8 last year. Must be a lot of generational talents in baseball right now.

    In the peak of his career, Griffey was a 7-10 win player. Now THAT is a generational talent.
    First, Stanton was a 6 WAR player in only 500 PAs of playing time. The players ahead of him on that list achieved their WAR with an average of 165 more PAs. Basically they had the benefit of roughly playing a quarter of the season more than Stanton. Only two players had greater than 5.8 WAR when their playing time was normalized to Stanton's (Trout and Posey). Or to put it another way, if Stanton was normalized to the average playing time of the guys above him, he was on pace to be a 7.7 WAR player.

    Second, how many were 22 or younger? (hint: 2: Heyward and Trout). The average age of the 17 position players you're referring to is 28. It's not really fair to compare Stanton at age 22 to Jr during his peak years though when using important context such as playing time and age, Staton is hanging right with young Jr. That said, I think most would concede that Stanton is probably likely to be somewhere below the career of one of the top 5 centerfielders of all time but Stanton is not at his peak and he could easily be a 7 to 10 WAR guy at age 28. The guy is a very unique, elite trueskill player.

    Third, Chapman is a relief pitcher. He was one of the most dominating bullpen arms in the majors last year and was only worth 3.3 WAR. He may become a dominant starter. He MAY. Right now it's counting unhatched chickens. Speaking of unhatched chickens, that's what Hamilton is as well. Would Chapman's WAR double as a starter? How many starting pitchers posted a WAR over 6 last season? (hint 2: Verlander and King Felix). It generally takes such an arm somewhere in the neighborhood of 230-250 innings to do it. Is Chapman a lock to ever pitch 230 innings? If he did, would he do it with a FIP around 3 or lower? As unhatched chickens go, it seems writing Chapman in as a 6.5 WAR pitcher in ink is assuming a great deal.

    When talking about a team that should contend for the WS over the next several seasons, i'll take a bird in the hand over two in the bush.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  14. #14
    -The Insider-
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    Re: Giancarlo Stanton

    Yes he is.

  15. #15
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Giancarlo Stanton

    Quote Originally Posted by cinreds21 View Post
    Yes he is.
    No he's really not. Stanton had a very good 5.8 WAR. But Chapman had 3.3 WAR as a reliever. As a starter, it's likely that will nearly double.

    So no, he's not worth throwing in Billy Hamilton on top of it.
    Last edited by Brutus; 12-03-2012 at 01:27 PM.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda


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